Machado: Update - Manny, do you officially like us?

[iamshack]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

They are talking about a press conference on Jan.7. 

Of everyone on this board, I know you are the most invested in at least one of these guys being a White Sox. I think you even thought both. It might be time to at least start preparing for the worst.

Nah

[Vote4Pedro]

Just now, fathom said:

Trading for a future core piece would be great. Trading for Encarnacion would be insane.

That would be nice as long as there is years of control behind the player, if it’s a trade that you only get one or two years of control and then they are a free agent that would be insane/bad, I don’t believe we are in a position to ship out the prospects required for a future core piece right now unfortunately 

[SonofaRoache]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is what Hahn has said all along.

Many Sox fans want Kenny and Hahn out of town already, as they have proven to be incompetent. Jerry has proven he can't get the big fish with the Bulls and Sox. Plan B will have to be gaining trust and respect from fans, who will compare things to GarPac. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I would think it would be due to the holidays. This would be one of the biggest signings in history, and people are doing other things. It would basically be the Friday night news dump , I take a bus to work in the morning. It is empty now , usually standing room only. The office is a ghost town. Turn on the news and it is the back ups on the telecast. Watch TV, it’s re runs.

i think it is as simple as that. James McCann, that’s the type of stuff you can announce now. Machado and Harper, you need to wait until people return to their normal schedules.

Signing press conferences happen at a later date all the time. If there is any sort of handshake agreement between the two parties, more sources would have confirmed by now. I don’t believe there is any sort of agreement right now.

Edited December 29, 2018 by thxfrthmmrs

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Sarava said:

Didn't Hahn say last winter that things would be different the next winter? I could of swore he said that was the last winter of not doing anything worthwhile. Because when the winter meetings started this year, and him and Kenny both were saying it was a year early - my first thought was, of crap they're moving the goalposts on us now.

Yes he did say it would be different, but then definitely changed his tone towards the end of the season.  They are definitely being aggressive, but you don’t get points for simply trying.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

That would be nice as long as there is years of control behind the player, if it’s a trade that you only get one or two years of control and then they are a free agent that would be insane/bad, I don’t believe we are in a position to ship out the prospects required for a future core piece right now unfortunately 

I’m fine with trading anyone outside of Eloy if it’s for someone with 4 or more years of control.

[Sarava]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

I’m fine with trading anyone outside of Eloy if it’s for someone with 4 or more years of control.

Hmm, I'd have a hard time supporting anything that moves Cease. But yeah, otherwise I kind of agree.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Signing press conferences happen at a later date all the time. If there is any sort of handshake agreement between the two parties, more sources would have confirmed by now. I don’t believe there is any sort of agreement right now.

I am sure before it becomes official, Manny is going to have to take a physical, probably in NY, maybe in Tampa. Who knows what his schedule is like.for all we know, he might be on vacation right now. There are many reasons it could be delayed. Obviously one could be that the report is fake. But the White Sox going after Encarnacion sends a signal that something has changed.

[iamshack]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I am sure before it becomes official, Manny is going to have to take a physical, probably in NY, maybe in Tampa. Who knows what his schedule is like.for all we know, he might be on vacation right now. There are many reasons it could be delayed. Obviously one could be that the report is fake. But the White Sox going after Encarnacion sends a signal that something has changed.

Does it? Why wouldn’t they just check in on him for due diligence reasons? 

[ptatc]

45 minutes ago, Sarava said:

The Sox management are the ones that created this undesirable team to play for. If it's that bad where even offering the most money doesn't lure guys in, then that shows that the damage they have caused might be far worse than us fans realized.

I mean, even if you forgive or forget about  everything that happened before the rebuild. Management has gone out of their way to be as bad as possible the last few years. They're tanking for picks. They weren't filling gaping holes on the roster. There's pros and cons to that. They got Nick Madigral and will have the 3rd pick next year. But it might of cost them Manny Machado. He see that triple digit loss total, and he sees that as the New Year is about to roll over, they've done little to nothing  this off-season to change that.

Well maybe he doesn't want to be part of this losing culture that they are continuing to foster, even as they pursue him and Bryce Harper?

But this isn't just an issue with the White Sox. He always wanted to go to the Yankees over ALL other teams. This includes the Phillies and the Dodgers and all of the other teams. It's not be cause the Sox are irrelevant,  it's because he WANTED to go to the Yankees. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, iamshack said:

Does it? Why wouldn’t they just check in on him for due diligence reasons? 

I will play optimistic devils advocate and say that who knows, maybe their plan was to never keep Abreu and Alonso on same roster and this is an indication that they’re confident in getting Machado and Abreu is going to get dealt.  I know it’s not likely, but it’s not an impossible scenario.

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m fine with trading anyone outside of Eloy if it’s for someone with 4 or more years of control.

It is amazing how many just find effort good enough. 

It make sense the more effort you put into things the better you will be, but effort doesn’t matter in the real world.. results do.  You have a kid in little league, giving their best effort is important. Whether they actually win the game really doesn’t matter that much. 

[The Beast]

21 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

Yeah I think some people thought that if they didn’t land one of these two that the Sox were going to try and pull off a trade of some sort to land someone or anyone of any kind to help save face. This however would be a mistake in my eyes

Then the Alonso trade doesn’t make much sense then and I was one of the people that said it had nothing to do with Machado. It did, unless they are going to move Abreu.

I don’t want them to save face, I want the long term holes the Sox have filled and I want to see a stud play for this team instead of mediocrity we have seen over the years. Filling third base with someone other than Yolmer Sanchez would have been huge. I thought Machado would be a natural for here, whereas Harper might not be since there are a plethora of outfielders in the minor leagues.

I would like to see a starting pitcher be signed in free agency over the next year or so, a third baseman like Arenado be signed or acquired and more pieces to be added. I am all for the rebuild but I want to see pieces that supplement the rebuild and I have not seen that yet. I do not want to just see bad contracts taken on without much gain in terms of prospects. Hopefully it happens next offseason.

Edited December 29, 2018 by The Beast

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They are talking about a press conference on Jan.7. 

Of everyone on this board, I know you are the most invested in at least one of these guys being a White Sox. I think you even thought both. It might be time to at least start preparing for the worst.

Not landing a whale would be a failure of epic proportions.  I’m willing to give the Sox the benefit of the doubt here that they realize this and plan to offer obscene amounts of money to both of these guys.  If they do in fact blow out the competition with their offers, the chance they land of one them should be incredibly high.  That’s the construct I’m operating under and maybe that’s foolish given our track record, but I truly believe this time is different.  Rick Hahn & KW’s cockiness tell me as much.  For now, I’m putting my eggs in their basket and am prepared to go down with the ship if need be. 

[The Beast]

19 minutes ago, fathom said:

Trading for a future core piece would be great. Trading for Encarnacion would be insane.

It would make zero ****ing sense.

Edited December 29, 2018 by The Beast

[shipps]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

But this isn't just an issue with the White Sox. He always wanted to go to the Yankees over ALL other teams. This includes the Phillies and the Dodgers and all of the other teams. It's not be cause the Sox are irrelevant,  it's because he WANTED to go to the Yankees. 

Hence the one and a half hour meeting with them. *Yeah, this is where I want to be, you are close to what I was looking for, we will make this work out* Couple weeks later his friend is telling a long time Oriole blogger/writer who has made some connections over the years that the decision is final because they all but signed on dotted line. 

[The Beast]

19 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Didn't Hahn say last winter that things would be different the next winter? I could of swore he said that was the last winter of not doing anything worthwhile. Because when the winter meetings started this year, and him and Kenny both were saying it was a year early - my first thought was, of crap they're moving the goalposts on us now.

Spoken like two individuals with blind optimism.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, iamshack said:

Does it? Why wouldn’t they just check in on him for due diligence reasons? 

Because they have that position filled, one by Machado’s brother in law, and Encarnacion is pretty much a DH only, owed a minimum $25 million, 35 years old, coming off a down year. And Morosi, and maybe that is also inaccurate, made it seem like the Sox were doing a bit more that checking in on him. And it comes out the same day of the other report. If everything that comes out is bullshit, how do we know the reports of the White Sox really being a player for theses guys and not the typical also rans they normally are, aren’t bullshit?

[shipps]

1 minute ago, The Beast said:

It would make zero ****ing sense.

The whole Shields debacle has put fans in a place where we would not rule out the FO trading talent for a has been. 

[The Beast]

17 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yes he did say it would be different, but then definitely changed his tone towards the end of the season.  They are definitely being aggressive, but you don’t get points for simply trying.

I wonder if their tune changed because of Kopech getting hurt and if that impacted either whale’s decision not to come here.

[fathom]

Just now, The Beast said:

Spoken like two individuals with blind optimism.

Or two individuals that were told what they wanted to hear by agents but were just being used to drive up costs?  Wait, you’re telling me Harper doesn’t really care about what prospects you have coming up in 2-3 years?

[Jose Abreu]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not landing a whale would be a failure of epic proportions.  I’m willing to give the Sox the benefit of the doubt here that they realize this and plan to offer obscene amounts of money to both of these guys.  If they do in fact blow out the competition with their offers, the chance they land of one them should be incredibly high.  That’s the construct I’m operating under and maybe that’s foolish given our track record, but I truly believe this time is different.  Rick Hahn & KW’s cockiness tell me as much.  For now, I’m putting my eggs in their basket and am prepared to go down with the ship if need be. 

This is where I’m at, pretty much. If we don’t land a whale I’d be fine if the FO got a shake-up. There is no excuse, this was my expectation from the moment they traded Sale and later set themselves up for having zero significant payroll obligations in the future. If you can’t make yourself appealing to a FA when you’re the team offering them the most money, I’m not gonna be one of the fans who’s saying “at least you tried”.

[The Beast]

2 minutes ago, shipps said:

The whole Shields debacle has put fans in a place where we would not rule out the FO trading talent for a has been. 

One would hope they would have learned from their ignorance. Tatis Jr. would agree.

[fathom]

Just now, The Beast said:

I wonder if their tune changed because of Kopech getting hurt and if that impacted either whale’s decision not to come here.

Had nothing to do with Kopech, as those comments might have been before the injury.  To me, had more to do with the complete debacle in terms of player growth at the big league level last year.  I can’t recall the exact day that Hahn’s attitude changed, but I definitely posted on here that he seemed to move the goalpost.

[Sarava]

Just now, The Beast said:

I wonder if their tune changed because of Kopech getting hurt and if that impacted either whale’s decision not to come here.

Here's another thought. If Eloy had been promoted mid-summer as he deserved - could that of swayed these guys? Prospects bomb out all the time. But if he came up and tore the AL up for 2 months, the Sox have a much better case to bring to Machado or Harper. Of course, Eloy could of come up and struggled too - to be fair.

Would giving up 2025 control of Eloy be worth Manny Machado coming here?