Machado: Update - Manny, do you officially like us?

[spiderman]

Just now, beckham15 said:

That would be the only way I would trade for him is if you could do an agreement to sign and trade. I wouldn’t hope and pray for a Goldschmidt situation to where he  could just walk the next offseason.

Agreed. If they go down the trading path, which is probably a good bet, they had better trade for someone (or trade/sign) who is here for a minimum of 3 more seasons.

[heirdog]

Dan Clark’s “source” (and Dan Clark too) is making an educated guess. It’s down to 3 teams with Philly possibly lagging behind so 50/50 shot he signs w Yanks, which was his preference from childhood. But since meeting w Sox and eventually weighing the $$$, he may choose Sox...or Yanks. It’s nice to throw out there and say he had it first...or if he signs w Sox, “he changed his mind”

[iamshack]

3 minutes ago, shipps said:

I feel like the Sox are going to be dead set on making big splash this off season whatever means necessary. If they strike out on these guys that means there will be a trade that hauls out young talent. 

Is a trade for Arenado with the thought of signing him a possibility as plan b? 

Nope. If they were going to try and trade for someone, I think it would likely be for someone with significant control. Very doubtful that he is available, but perhaps someone like Senzel. 

[iamshack]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I just don’t think the White Sox are in a position to play that game. If they don’t know it is going to cost them more than it would the Yankees, they were screwed from the get go. If they want one of these guys they are going to have to blow away the competition, not try to nickel and dime them.

When JR signed Belle he asked them what it was going to take. He then agreed. Here it is a bit more, so there could be some back and forth, but not nearly as much as there could be if they actually were a desirable destination.

No one is claiming they don’t know it’s going to cost them more than the Yankees. 

[spiderman]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

So there is no possiblity that Machado always wanted to play for the Yankmees and Harper always wanted to play in LA and nothing was going to change their minds? Since all of the deals were going to be near record setting, their desire to play in a particular city makes no difference. 

If the White Sox had no realistic chance of signing one or both, that is pretty much the default position of most analysts. The big market teams (unfortunately, the White Sox operate like a mid-level one), particularly in LA/NY have the advantage to most elite players.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I just don’t think the White Sox are in a position to play that game. If they don’t know it is going to cost them more than it would the Yankees, they were screwed from the get go. If they want one of these guys they are going to have to blow away the competition, not try to nickel and dime them.

When JR signed Belle he asked them what it was going to take. He then agreed. Here it is a bit more, so there could be some back and forth, but not nearly as much as there could be if they actually were a desirable destination.

Everyone knew they had to significantly outbid the Yankmees for his services. He has stated forever that he preferred to play there. It is probably the case that no amount of money that would change his mind.

Besides the Sox will trade for him in 2 years when he is tired of the Yankmees fans booing him.

[GreatScott82]

Bruce Levine said this morning on his “Inside the Clubhouse” show that Moncada will be the starting 3b for the White Sox. They are going to move Sanchez back to 2B until Madrigal is ready. To me that tells me that many of the local media members are pretty confident MM will sign elsewhere. It looks like their big moves have already been made. Alonso, McCain and Nova. Yay! From 62 wins to 68? Or is 68 wins a reach? 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, iamshack said:

Nope. If they were going to try and trade for someone, I think it would likely be for someone with significant control. Very doubtful that he is available, but perhaps someone like Senzel. 

I don't think Senzel gets moved for anything less than a front of the rotation arm with at least 3 years of control.

[iamshack]

Just now, GreatScott82 said:

Bruce Levine said this morning on his “Inside the Clubhouse” show that Moncada will be the starting 3b for the White Sox. They are going to move Sanchez back to 2B until Madrigal is ready. To me that tells me that many of the local media members are pretty confident MM will sign elsewhere. It looks like their big moves have already been made. Alonso, McCain and Nova. Yay! From 62 wins to 68? Or is 68 wins a reach? 

You are going to believe Bruce?

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

So there is no possiblity that Machado always wanted to play for the Yankmees and Harper always wanted to play in LA and nothing was going to change their minds? Since all of the deals were going to be near record setting, their desire to play in a particular city makes no difference. 

If that was the case and the White Sox let their franchise get hung out to dry and used up as a bargaining chip with no actual hope of success, that should also reflect on the quality of white sox operations and decision making.

[iamshack]

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

I don't think Senzel gets moved for anything less than a front of the rotation arm with at least 3 years of control.

It would for sure take a boatload.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, GreatScott82 said:

Bruce Levine said this morning on his “Inside the Clubhouse” show that Moncada will be the starting 3b for the White Sox. They are going to move Sanchez back to 2B until Madrigal is ready. To me that tells me that many of the local media members are pretty confident MM will sign elsewhere. It looks like their big moves have already been made. Alonso, McCain and Nova. Yay! From 62 wins to 68? Or is 68 wins a reach? 

I'm ok with this plan as well.

Edit: if true.

Edited December 29, 2018 by soxfan2014

[GreatScott82]

Just now, iamshack said:

You are going to believe Bruce?

Well I can’t really trust Hahn or KW to sign a whale. Other than the Cuban international signings, they have never done that. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If that was the case and the White Sox let their franchise get hung out to dry and used up as a bargaining chip with no actual hope of success, that should also reflect on the quality of white sox operations and decision making.

You are right. They should have sat out instead of coming out second.

[iamshack]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

If that was the case and the White Sox let their franchise get hung out to dry and used up as a bargaining chip with no actual hope of success, that should also reflect on the quality of white sox operations and decision making.

They are in the position they are in. You want to go down the road of saying “they should have had the org in a more attractive position than to rely just on bribery,” that is your prerogative. 

There are a significant number of paths this organization can take to sustainable competitiveness, something that simply was not the case 2 years ago. As things currently stand, even if the Sox do strikeout on both of these guys, they are in a FAR better position to land at least one of them than sane person would have expected even 6 months ago. Should they miss, the timeline certainly gets pushed back a bit, but the future is still extremely bright. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are right. They should have sat out instead of coming out second.

Pretty much sounds like the history of one entire century of Sox baseball, minus 2005.

Participation trophies, for sure.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, iamshack said:

They are in the position they are in. You want to go down the road of saying “they should have had the org in a more attractive position than to rely just on bribery,” that is your prerogative. 

There are a significant number of paths this organization can take to sustainable competitiveness, something that simply was not the case 2 years ago. As things currently stand, even if the Sox do strikeout on both of these guys, they are in a FAR better position to land at least one of them than sane person would have expected even 6 months ago. Should they miss, the timeline certainly gets pushed back a bit, but the future is still extremely bright. 

Without a major addition like one of these guys to fill in the talent gap, I find this organization's future to be very hazy given the way the 2018 season went. The fog could clear next year, but it could also turn into a continuing storm. 

[Vote4Pedro]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are right. They should have sat out instead of coming out second.

Yes, I would have them rather sat out, used their time and efforts elsewhere rather than coming in second if they knew in advance they didn’t have the approval to throw the necessary money out to land him ahead of time. It was no secret Machado has love for the NYY and a record breaking offer was needed to sway him elsewhere. 

[iamshack]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Without a major addition like one of these guys to fill in the talent gap, I find this organization's future to be very hazy given the way the 2018 season went. The fog could clear next year, but it could also turn into a continuing storm. 

And that is your perspective. One that is certainly understandable. However, if you truly believe that, signing one or even both of these guys isn’t going to matter.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, iamshack said:

They are in the position they are in. You want to go down the road of saying “they should have had the org in a more attractive position than to rely just on bribery,” that is your prerogative. 

There are a significant number of paths this organization can take to sustainable competitiveness, something that simply was not the case 2 years ago. As things currently stand, even if the Sox do strikeout on both of these guys, they are in a FAR better position to land at least one of them than sane person would have expected even 6 months ago. Should they miss, the timeline certainly gets pushed back a bit, but the future is still extremely bright. 

In the end, they’re still in risk mitigation mode.  It isn’t going to placate the fans much...not nearly as much as the rebuild going more positively than negatively.

It’s the equivalent of cheering for ND or Oklahoma today.  Sure, there’s a 3-5% chance.   But it actually hurts a lot more to get fully invested and get your hopes up.  We’ve seen this story play out one too many times to believe in the fairy tale Disney movie ending.

Edited December 29, 2018 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

13 minutes ago, shipps said:

I feel like the Sox are going to be dead set on making big splash this off season whatever means necessary. If they strike out on these guys that means there will be a trade that hauls out young talent. 

Is a trade for Arenado with the thought of signing him a possibility as plan b? 

A scenario like this is my biggest fear in all of this.
 

[iamshack]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

In the end, they’re still in risk mitigation mode.  It isn’t going to placate the fans much...not nearly as much as the rebuild going more positively than negatively.

It’s the equivalent of cheering for ND or Oklahoma today.  Sure, there’s a 3-5% chance.   

I don’t follow.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

A scenario like this is my biggest fear in all of this.
 

I hope not. If so, they might as well have done this last off-season with Machado while handing him over a blank check.

[Dick Allen]

They pretty much challenged themselves with these two. Hahn has often mentioned that the White Sox don’t operate they way they used to. That the money was there for a piece they needed. KW stated the piece or pieces they needed were available now. So if they miss, something doesn’t add up. As my guy Geddy Lee used to sing, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

2nd place doesn’t cut it.

[fathom]

11 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I'm ok with this plan as well.

Edit: if true.

I despise the idea of Moncada at 3rd. Just seems like such a waste.