Machado: Update - Manny, do you officially like us?

[bmags]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The fact you call 2014 to 2016 a “rebuild” shows you are unable to be objective in this conversation.

After 2013 the Sox absolutely said they were rebuilding on the fly and Hahns horrendous acquisitions to jump start it in 2015 after a promising 2014 are absolutely reasons to be very skeptical this group is capable of both stockpiling talent and also turning it into a World Series contender.

[iamshack]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Why wouldn’t the White Sox be offering max dollars and years?

If that wasthe reason for this leak, it would laughable. More laughable than the leak of interest in taking Dayan Viciedo off their hands.

You think Hahn is going to come out of the gates and make his final offer first? 

Secondly, I already said the premise was ridiculous, but so is the premise that they would be interested because Machado had moved on already. 

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Lozano is supposedly a massive sleazeball 

But seriously, Jon Morosi reporting the Sox are in on EE , given their current position, and roster, would  make Lozano blink? 

That would be impossible to believe.

[TheFutureIsNear]

4 minutes ago, Flash Tizzle said:

Isn’t that sad though, the thought that we never had a chance even with the available money? It won’t matter for Arenado, or any other top tier FA, either. We’re a tough sell unless this team is FAR outspending its competitors. If that’s the reality, we are in a lot of trouble unless this minor league system starts producing immediately. Eloy can’t wait 3-4 years, ontop of Moncada’s 3-4 years and Giolitto’s 3-4 years for everything to come together. This is the position we are faced with. 

The Alonso move, no matter the rationale, will always be associated with Machado. I’m more willing to accept Alonso as some bargaining chip than the possibility we traded for him as someone we envision being part of a championship team. 

 

The minor system does have to produce...as well as finding a value free agent or 2 + turning a couple of those prospects into an established player. Do those things and THEN go after a top free agent as the final piece. Of course if we could get the final piece 1st it wouldn’t be a bad thing...just a lot easier said than done I feel.

I mean, I know if I’m Machado I wouldn’t sign with a team that isn’t a playoff team,  even after signing me. Whatever extra $ we can offer isn’t going to make a difference in his life over what the Yankees will pay him.

[caulfield12]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

But seriously, Jon Morosi reporting the Sox are in on EE , given their current position, and roster, would  make Lozano blink? 

That would be impossible to believe.

The looming presence of Jose Martinez will push him over the edge, though.

[iamshack]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

But seriously, Jon Morosi reporting the Sox are in on EE , given their current position, and roster, would  make Lozano blink? 

That would be impossible to believe.

So it’s impossible to believe they would have interest in EE in any scenario? Because you seem to be arguing you believe the Sox might have interest in EE if Machado had moved on from them, but not that the White Sox might use that very same possibility (which you seem to think is plausible) as a negotiating lever?

That is illogical. 

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

There any other good 1 or 2 year stop gaps we can sign to flip in July or next off-season?

Pomeranz & Cody Allen.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, iamshack said:

You think Hahn is going to come out of the gates and make his final offer first? 

Secondly, I already said the premise was ridiculous, but so is the premise that they would be interested because Machado had moved on already. 

From what I have read about JR, he isn’t one for prolonged negotiations. With Belle, he basically gave him what they asked. With Abreu, RH was surprised he went where he went. So if it was to the point as you suggested they neede to add years and money, the reports that they won’t be outbid seem erroneous.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

After 2013 the Sox absolutely said they were rebuilding on the fly and Hahns horrendous acquisitions to jump start it in 2015 after a promising 2014 are absolutely reasons to be very skeptical this group is capable of both stockpiling talent and also turning it into a World Series contender.

Rebuilding on the fly is the definition of retooling.  When the Sox traded Sale was the first time the Sox committed to a legit rebuild under KW & Hahn.

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, iamshack said:

So it’s impossible to believe they would have interest in EE in any scenario? Because you seem to be arguing you believe the Sox might have interest in EE if Machado had moved on from them, but not that the White Sox might use that very same possibility (which you seem to think is plausible) as a negotiating lever?

That is illogical. 

Not at all. I really don’t get the Sox interest. I just pointed out one possibility. And it would appear Alonso would be the guy who left. But the Sox brought him in to lure Manny.  Apparently, they need some new bait. That would be $. . If I were Mannys agent I would call that bluff in a heartbeat. It would be too easy. That is why I doubt it is a plant from the White Sox.

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Dick Allen

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I've been a big supporter of Hahn, but if he misses on the big 2, does nothing else this offseason, and the team shows no improvement in 2019, he needs to be gone.

[iamshack]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

From what I have read about JR, he isn’t one for prolonged negotiations. With Belle, he basically gave him what they asked. With Abreu, RH was surprised he went where he went. So if it was to the point as you suggested they neede to add years and money, the reports that they won’t be outbid seem erroneous.

A couple thoughts: 

1) I don’t think they are taking the position that they won’t be outbid.

2) JR is aggressive, but he’s not an idiot. You are absolutely right in regards to him not being one to mess around. They have shown a willingness to move a bit on Machado, however. 

3) The range of potential numbers when Belle signed is far smaller than the range of numbers Machado/Harper might ask for. 

 

 

[iamshack]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Not at all. I really don’t get the Sox interest. I just pointed out one possibility. And it would appear Alonso would be the guy who left. But the Sox brought him in to lure Manny.  Apparently, they need some new bait. That would be $. . If I were Mannys agent I would call that bluff in a heartbeat. It would be too easy. That is why I doubt it is a plant from the White Sox.

 

I tend to agree that most of this stuff is nonsensical, but these leaks fly left and right every year and they obviously are coming from somewhere. I don’t think they are created just for entertainment value.

[Jack Parkman]

44 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Agreed

Thirded. 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, iamshack said:

A couple thoughts: 

1) I don’t think they are taking the position that they won’t be outbid.

2) JR is aggressive, but he’s not an idiot. You are absolutely right in regards to him not being one to mess around. They have shown a willingness to move a bit on Machado, however. 

3) The range of potential numbers when Belle signed is far smaller than the range of numbers Machado/Harper might ask for. 

 

 

I understand 3. But, they also have to realize they are in a different position than when they signed Belle. They don’t have a HOFer and an all star he can bat in between. The teams interest  level is getting close to lows since JR owned the team. They have to pay for that.

[Jack Parkman]

59 minutes ago, Special K said:

Exactly. A rebuild on the fly again.  It would be trash. 

 

If we dont land ine one of the whales, I’ll be much happier with Hahn if we stand pat and don’t make a move and just stay the course of acquiring talent. Anything else would look like panic.

Agreed. If they miss on HarpChado, I'd look at moving Abreu and Colome. 

[iamshack]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

I understand 3. But, they also have to realize they are in a different position than when they signed Belle. They don’t have a HOFer and an all star he can bat in between. The teams interest  level is getting close to lows since JR owned the team. They have to pay for that.

There is a difference between having the strongest offers and being Tom Hicks and paying Arod $250m though. 

I think they’d like to get as close to the former (and still sign the guy(s)) than the latter.

[The Beast]

39 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Holy fuck this board needs an official announcement badly.

No rumor can cure this. Only an official announcement on what team he is going to play for.

An announcement and some clarification on what they are planning to do. I am beyond confused by the Encarnacion rumors other than it wouldn’t take much to get him and he could hold down third base for a year. Jose Martinez would make sense if one of or both Alonso and Abreu were sent packing. I don’t understand what the plan is and time is going to tell. I think Machado is as good as a Yankee and would put money on it if I bet.

[GreenSox]

The Sox had to offer crazy money to get Machado.  If they didn't, they weren't serious.
That said, even crazy money may not be enough.  At some point there is declining marginal utility of money.  He wants to win. 
 

Edited December 29, 2018 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, The Beast said:

An announcement and some clarification on what they are planning to do. I am beyond confused by the Encarnacion rumors other than it wouldn’t take much to get him and he could hold down third base for a year. Jose Martinez would make sense if one of or both Alonso and Abreu were sent packing. I don’t understand what the plan is and time is going to tell. I think Machado is as good as a Yankee and would put money on it if I bet.

Why on earth you would do this rather than playing Yolmer I have no idea.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Edwin hasn't played third base consistently since like 2010 ?

[The Beast]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Why on earth you would do this rather than playing Yolmer I have no idea.

I think we are both on the same page, I am not suggesting I would want Encarnacion at third, the move just doesn’t make sense. As annoying as it would be to have Yolmer at third against would make sense until they bring in Arenado or some other stud to play.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Edwin hasn't played third base consistently since like 2010 ?

Long live E5!

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, The Beast said:

I think we are both on the same page, I am not suggesting I would want Encarnacion at third, the move just doesn’t make sense. As annoying as it would be to have Yolmer at third against would make sense until they bring in Arenado or some other stud to play.

It’s obvious if no Machado, then Yoan goes to 3rd.

[iWiN4PreP]

I'm not buying the tweet by Dan Clarke. 

It doesn't make sense. I've been saying all a long that Machado will be a White Sox player. Yankees don't have the money that he will demand. 

If Machado does go to the Yankees, I will very eagerly wait and hear reports from Hahn and co. as to why they couldn't get Machado. 

I will likely be very upset. If the White Sox also don't get Harper, I will be furious. Sometimes, you can't help it and these guys go to their desired destinations, but that's shit for baseball. There's a reason I don't watch any NBA anymore ... due to this kind of shit. If Harper/Machado go to the big dogs, and our offseaso n moves are summed up by Nova/McCann/Colome/Alonso, I'll happily forfeit my baseball hobby in place for other more interesting hobbies and forget the White Sox exist.

But for now, I am firmly believing Machado's ours!

Edited December 29, 2018 by iWiN4PreP