Machado: Update - Manny, do you officially like us?

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...this is absurd.  The team better be competing well before 2022 or Hahn has completely failed at his job.  Moncada & Lopez are free agents after the 2023 season & Kopech after 2024, so realistically the window will likely be 2020 to 2024.

Absurd? I guess the first thing is what is your definition of "competing". Because mine is actually having a shot at winning the World Series. So in my own definition I don't count the Braves as a serious competitor this past year. Sure they won the division but they were never making it through the gauntlet of the playoffs as champs. Likewise, the Astros are a perfect example. In 2015 they won 86 games and went as a WC.. nice season? yes. But it was laying groundwork. They never really had a shot at winnign it all. 2016 they won 84 games and didn't make the playoffs. Obviously 2017 worked out great.

 

So, maybe by your definition my thoughts are absurd, but my thoughts are more or less this:

2019: hopefully a great, healthy year in the minors, players move up to AAA. Maybe a Cease or others hits the majors

2020: Your Madrigals, Dunnings, and Kopechs all take their licks in the MLB. Hot/cold season. Up and down.

2021: Your second wave of prospects --- Rutherford, Adolfos, Burgers, etc. get their seasoning while your Kopech, Cease, Dunnings, start really coming into form.

2022: Everything finally comes together.

 

So yes, I standby 2022 being the first REAL year that a Sox team can compete seriously against teams like the Yankees and Red Sox and Astros currently are putting out.

That's assuming no injuries and prospects all getting better... let's not forget we thought Moncada would be an All-Star and Giolito could be a nice 2-3 starter. Hansen was supposed to be a 2-3 starter too... now he's what? And Fulmer, etc. etc. things don't go that smoothly very often. Robert is probably more likely to be Jorge Soler than Mookie Betts. So yes, 2022. I guess I'm absurd.

[JoshPR]

15 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Kudos to those who were calling Clark’s tweet BS last week. Now that the big boys are returning to work, all signs point to him spewing BS without real information last week. He was either trying to strike first with a scoop by picking the most likely scenario while others are taking the week off, or he was fed with bad information and wanted to go down in flame with it.

Jim leyritz tweeted the same shit too actually

[thxfrthmmrs]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

The thing about Clark's tweet was how much certainty he was throwing behind one second hand source. That is the difference between rosenthals/shermans/etc, who either get high up sources but also often get confirmation from multiple. On flip side, it often means by time you get the info it's darn near finished.

Info like clark's can appear way before anything is finalized, and end up false due to changing in circumstances or false due to the source relaying the information with more certainty or lack of context than it requires.

But, Clark may end up being right despite wrong info, or wrong despite right info, or just got cautious info and blew it up way out of proportion because he's a dip, but anyway, this is a message board and if you didn't come here for rumors, you'll get them anyway.

Either way he gets no sympathy from me because how big of a douche he has been. The guy acts like a 15 year old trying to be cool and not any resemblance of a professional journalist.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Either way he gets no sympathy from me because how big of a douche he has been. The guy acts like a 15 year old trying to be cool and not any resemblance of a professional journalist.

I don't think he should get sympathy. I think it's just hard now knowing what to discount on its face, because accurate information keeps getting soaked up by some shameless people. I think the main grain of salt aside from his attention seeking is that he only had one second hand source that he put 100% guarantee of being true.

[thxfrthmmrs]

6 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Jim leyritz tweeted the same shit too actually

I think @Chicago White Sox pointed out he also likely did not have real intel and was purely going on a hunch. It doesn’t look like he has close ties to the Yankees anymore.

Again, he might be right at the end, but in Clark’s case he has tweeted out a lot more specificities, like how all final offers were submitted, Machado is already set to pick the Yankees, they will hold conference on Jan 7th, Andujar is staying with the team, etc. It’s those false details that’s coming back to bite him.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Again, he might be right at the end, but in Clark’s case he has tweeted out a lot more specificities, like how all final offers were submitted, Machado is already set to pick the Yankees, they will hold conference on Jan 7th, Andujar is staying with the team, etc. It’s those false details that’s coming back to bite him.

None of those details have been proven false yet though

[thxfrthmmrs]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't think he should get sympathy. I think it's just hard now knowing what to discount on its face, because accurate information keeps getting soaked up by some shameless people. I think the main grain of salt aside from his attention seeking is that he only had one second hand source that he put 100% guarantee of being true.

I’ve been saying from the get go that he’s likely getting bad second hand info from someone close to Machado’s circle. But it’s completely on him that he put so much faith on it and tried to put down people who doubted his credibility along the way. I think that’s a lesson learned for him if he were to continue with his “gig”.

Edited January 2, 2019 by thxfrthmmrs

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

1 hour ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I know some have mixed feelings about WSD, but check the end of this article out: https://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/sources-me-troy-tulowitzki-signs-1-year-deal-with-yankees/

Says he has has more #scoopcity info later today. Might be nothing or completely unrelated to Machado, but could be interesting nonetheless.

Lol how could one guy possibly be so obnoxious?

[maggsmaggs]

So, as many expected, WSD's "scoop city" was nothing but an attention grab. He is starting a Barstool Chicago office or something like that. This is why he gets a bad reputation, because he implies he has a White Sox-related scoop, then the scoop concerns nothing related to the White Sox. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

None of those details have been proven false yet though

I know Bob is not widely respected here, but he tweeted out last night Machado will he getting final offers this week, and I think the biggest red flag is with how much uncertainty around the situation, it’s hard for him to know they had planned a conference to announce the signing on Jan 7th last week.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, maggsmaggs said:

So, as many expected, WSD's "scoop city" was nothing but an attention grab. He is starting a Barstool Chicago office or something like that. This is why he gets a bad reputation, because he implies he has a White Sox-related scoop, then the scoop concerns nothing related to the White Sox. 

To be fair, he never said it was a baseball announcement. As a matter of fact, when he said announcement and not rumor, I figured it wasn’t a baseball rumor.

[maggsmaggs]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

To be fair, he never said it was a baseball announcement. As a matter of fact, when he said announcement and not rumor, I figured it wasn’t a baseball rumor.

Ya, but he included it at the bottom of a baseball-related article in which he was gloating about being "right" on a baseball-related scoop.

[fathom]

So a guy with strong Sox sources says he loves their chances with Machado, yet people are fixated on if he’s a jerk or not?  I get it, WSD isn’t for everyone.  But I trust him a hell of a lot more than Nightengale.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/31/2018 at 5:15 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

I will say this, you’d think his agent would tell him not do anything revealing on social media until they’ve got something signed, sealed, & delivered.  So either something is in the “finalizing” stages or they’ve stepped their plant game to another level.

Ever think Manny gave his agent permission to follow certain Yankee things as a negotiating ploy ? 2 things we have heard about MM a lot and that is he loves the Yankees and he loves money. So let's say the Yankees offer is less than the Sox but agent wants Sox to think he's going to the Yanks. Seems to me to be the right way to go about getting a better offer from the Sox. To me it's unethical but not illegal. I believe in negotiating in good faith but that's a bit old fashioned and probably has been done in the past by other agents. The bigger twitter gets the more it will be a cesspool for this kind of behavior and may also involve bribes.

[timbo8]

Just now, fathom said:

So a guy with strong Sox sources says he loves their chances with Machado, yet people are fixated on if he’s a jerk or not?  I get it, WSD isn’t for everyone.  But I trust him a hell of a lot more than Nightengale.

Agreed him and Brian i trust them bob nightingale 

[OmarComing25]

31 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Absurd? I guess the first thing is what is your definition of "competing". Because mine is actually having a shot at winning the World Series. So in my own definition I don't count the Braves as a serious competitor this past year. Sure they won the division but they were never making it through the gauntlet of the playoffs as champs. Likewise, the Astros are a perfect example. In 2015 they won 86 games and went as a WC.. nice season? yes. But it was laying groundwork. They never really had a shot at winnign it all. 2016 they won 84 games and didn't make the playoffs. Obviously 2017 worked out great.

 

So, maybe by your definition my thoughts are absurd, but my thoughts are more or less this:

2019: hopefully a great, healthy year in the minors, players move up to AAA. Maybe a Cease or others hits the majors

2020: Your Madrigals, Dunnings, and Kopechs all take their licks in the MLB. Hot/cold season. Up and down.

2021: Your second wave of prospects --- Rutherford, Adolfos, Burgers, etc. get their seasoning while your Kopech, Cease, Dunnings, start really coming into form.

2022: Everything finally comes together.

 

So yes, I standby 2022 being the first REAL year that a Sox team can compete seriously against teams like the Yankees and Red Sox and Astros currently are putting out.

That's assuming no injuries and prospects all getting better... let's not forget we thought Moncada would be an All-Star and Giolito could be a nice 2-3 starter. Hansen was supposed to be a 2-3 starter too... now he's what? And Fulmer, etc. etc. things don't go that smoothly very often. Robert is probably more likely to be Jorge Soler than Mookie Betts. So yes, 2022. I guess I'm absurd.

This isn't the NBA, any team that makes the playoffs is a title contender.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ever think Manny gave his agent permission to follow certain Yankee things as a negotiating ploy ? 2 things we have heard about MM a lot and that is he loves the Yankees and he loves money. So let's say the Yankees offer is less than the Sox but agent wants Sox to think he's going to the Yanks. Seems to me to be the right way to go about getting a better offer from the Sox. To me it's unethical but not illegal. I believe in negotiating in good faith but that's a bit old fashioned and probably has been done in the past by other agents. The bigger twitter gets the more it will be a cesspool for this kind of behavior and may also involve bribes.

I think that’s definitely a legit possibility. And let’s be honest, Harper just did the same think by liking a Dodgers post.  Social media is a powerful tool and agents are going to use tool in their disposal to maximize value for their client and ultimately themselves.

[Dick Allen]

If a team upped their offer based on someone following a twitter account........................

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

1 hour ago, maggsmaggs said:

Exact quote is "HUGE #ScoopCity announcement coming up at 12pm EST (eyeball emoji)." We'll see if he's just trying to get attention or actually has something.

Someone may have already mentioned it by now, but the announcement was that the Red Line Radio boys are now going full-time with Barstool and they are opening up a Chicago office.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

26 minutes ago, fathom said:

So a guy with strong Sox sources says he loves their chances with Machado, yet people are fixated on if he’s a jerk or not?  I get it, WSD isn’t for everyone.  But I trust him a hell of a lot more than Nightengale.

Seriously. Like him or not, we don't care, but clearly his intel is good.

[shakes]

26 minutes ago, fathom said:

So a guy with strong Sox sources says he loves their chances with Machado, yet people are fixated on if he’s a jerk or not?  I get it, WSD isn’t for everyone.  But I trust him a hell of a lot more than Nightengale.

The guy is not for me, but you are right his sources have been pretty good. Better than anyone's sources here(Since Rock's sources have mostly dried up), and better than any of the beat reporters. 

Nightengale is a stooge for a couple of agents and a couple of FO people. Everything he tweets has an agenda behind it. There is really not much point following anything he says.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If a team upped their offer based on someone following a twitter account........................

Well you sure seem convinced Machado is as good as gone. What led you to think that? Was it just one or many in a series of twitter posts about it ? Clark, Simonetti. Sox supposed interest in other options, Manny following Yankees things on twitter etc.. haven't influenced you at all have they ?

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If a team upped their offer based on someone following a twitter account........................

If you’re Rick Hahn and Manny’s agent comes to you and says I need another $25M or he may take less and sign with the Yankees, what would you do?  Let’s be real here, Rick knows they’re offering more than New York.  It’s a game of chicken on whether or not you believe the proposed $25M will actually make a difference.  You may think it’s stupid, but I’d probaly throw an extra $25M after seeing him follow the YES Network because it does just enough to make me think he’s willing to take less money to purse his dream of playing in New York.

[Lillian]

It's hard to understand why the Yankees would commit a huge amount of money to another bat. They already have plenty of offense. They need pitching, which is still, along with the rest of the defense, 80% of the game. Cashman knows that. New York's front office is probably just trying to take advantage of Machado's infatuation with the Yankees, in an attempt to get him at a discount. If the Sox are really prepared to spend the money, I think that they can entice him to give up his Yankee dream. I also think that his wife, brother-in-law and agents would all be pushing him to take the bigger payday and forget about being a Yankee. 

I still like the front loaded contract, with an opt out, at around year 5. If they get Machado, I hope that the Sox use whatever else they plan on spending, on pitching. Again, it's much more important and is what wins championships. Spend the money on the starting rotation and the bullpen. 

 

 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

It's hard to understand why the Yankees would commit a huge amount of money to another bat. They already have plenty of offense. They need pitching, which is still, along with the rest of the defense, 80% of the game. Cashman knows that. New York's front office is probably just trying to take advantage of Machado's infatuation with the Yankees, in an attempt to get him at a discount. If the Sox are really prepared to spend the money, I think that they can entice him to give up his Yankee dream. I also think that his wife, brother-in-law and agents would all be pushing him to take the bigger payday and forget about being a Yankee. 

I still like the front loaded contract, with an opt out, at around year 5. If they get Machado, I hope that the Sox use whatever else they plan on spending, on pitching. Again, it's much more important and is what wins championships. Spend the money on the starting rotation and the bullpen. 

 

 

Well getting Manny to play 3B would also allow them to upgrade their defense while keeping their offense great and give them a great asset to go out and get that pitching you say they need.