Baron Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Exactly, they weren’t willing to blow out the competition for much more affordable targets, why do we think they’ll be any less measured when it comes to $300M+ deals? I have no doubts the Phillies are prepared to make a massive offer, but this idea they’ll do whatever it takes to land a whale is all speculation at this point. All teams have their limits and I think an Andy MacPhail led front office will hold his ground at some point. I dont think they value a 30 year old pitch and a end of baseball career pitcher the same as two young position players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Dodgers maybe. The Cubs have real issues though. If the Dodgers do it though, they are likely going over the tax which is something they told their shareholders they wouldn't be doing. Should be interesting. Dodgers are going to make trades sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo8 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: God Theo Epstein is on a short list of best sports executives ever but it is hilarious that he did not learn from him his mistakes in Boston. He really blew his wad the wrong way following the WS. Agreed he a good gm but he doesn’t do long time building like astros are doing in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, fathom said: Dodgers and Cubs all along were the 2 I thought were the only contenders. What better way to try to motivate the Cubs to offer Harper than to say the Sox are the front runners? As much as cub fans obsess over the Sox, I really don't think the Cubs organization cares at all if Harper comes here. The media "ZOMG Harper might come to the Cubbies!" fangirling will quickly turn to "Heh, he's overrated and will play in front of 300 fans" if he signs with the Sox. There would be no backlash for Theo. 7 minutes ago, beautox said: I agree which I think behooves the white sox to get opt outs after 4 years and front loading the contract to say 40M per year. Theoretically the sox could front load Harper and Machado to a combined tune of 75M and still have plenty of payroll flexibility to sign other pieces and lock up our developing core as the window opens. That's what I've been saying. The Sox could easily sign both of these guys. They are both going to opt out in a few years, before the Sox have to pay these kids. The only way the Sox are screwed is if both Harper and Machado turn into Heywards. Obviously not saying the Sox will sign both, but they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Like someone posted earlier this week, it would be incredible to sign Machado and then sort of help the Dodgers out by taking on 2 (or all 3) of Puig, Pederson, and Wood filling 3B with Machado, and then 2 OFs or an OF and a SP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, fathom said: Plan b is something I’ve thought of a lot and there’s no easy answers. I just hope the Sox don’t get caught off guard if they miss on these guys. I hope they stay the rebuild course if they miss out. Don't be foolish with your prospect currency in order to "make a statement," unless it makes sense for the long term. People seem to forget that this is only year 2 of the rebuild. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said: It's not based on AAV it's based on real dollars I am pretty sure of that. Nope. Luxury tax is based on AAV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: A front loaded deal would actually help the AAV in the beginning. His salary would be higher, but the luxury tax hit is lower. I understand that. It doesn't help the player though on the backend. If Harper sucks for whatever reason, he's taking like $25-$30 million in the back half of the deal if he opts into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: Dodgers are going to make trades sooner rather than later. Probably. And when they do I'll take their pursuit for seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, DirtySox said: I hope they stay the rebuild course if they miss out. Don't be foolish with your prospect currency in order to "make a statement," unless it makes sense for the long term. People seem to forget that this is only year 2 of the rebuild. I agree. But I think the longer they stay in this rut the harder offseason will be without doing something "attention grabbing" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said: Probably. And when they do I'll take their pursuit for seriously. I just think they’re waiting on Kluber and/or Realmuto before seeing which path to go. I have a hard time imaging them holding on to Puig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, bschmaranz said: I'd say the latter is most likely. Made put a few low cost bandaids on the bullet holes and go fishing next winter. If Sox strike out on Machado I think Sox definitely look to trade market as opposed to FA. 3 minutes ago, Baron said: I was assuming(more like hoping) he got the boot for a few weeks. You would think but he's been running wild for a few weeks now. 2 minutes ago, TomPickle said: I don't know if there's language in place to stop teams from blatantly doing stuff like this, but if there isn't what's stopping a team from offering a 15 year deal where the last 5 years are all at $1 million with a player opt out before those 5 years? You could shave a ton off the AAV by doing something like that if you're trying to get around the luxury tax. Not totally sure but options aren't guaranteed money so they wouldn't factor. This may be one of those things that seems exploitable from the outside but would lead to an exec getting shamed and punished without necessarily breaking the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, raBBit said: You're not wrong about a lot of this but the Sox internally don't like their chances. That's more than just mediaplay. What do you think has the Sox not liking their chances? Is it that they don't feel they can beat the other offers financially, that they don't feel they are a desired location or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, supernuke said: What do you think has the Sox not liking their chances? Is it that they don't feel they can beat the other offers financially, that they don't feel they are a desired location or both? I know you asked raBBit, but if I had to guess, I would think more of the "desired location" reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Baron said: Oh BTW I'd like to thank the mods....this thread is much much better than the last one. Good discussion this morning so far. Yup, amazing what a few suspensions can do for the quality of the site! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, supernuke said: What do you think has the Sox not liking their chances? Is it that they don't feel they can beat the other offers financially, that they don't feel they are a desired location or both? I was specifically speaking to HArper when I said Sox not loving their chances. I think the Sox tried to push the process to the end and it didn't go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Yup, amazing what a few suspensions can do for the quality of the site! Hopefully some are permanent lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, raBBit said: I think people should take the Dodgers more seriously. They have the most money of any team, they have the most creative front office, they have money to move associated to players that are good (Hi Cubs!) and they are conceivably Harper's preferred location. Plus they came up short of the trophy just barely to years in a row. They have all the depth a playoff team could need, now it's time for them to shed some of it and make way for another premium talent. Perhaps the hold up is they want to rid themselves of Matt Kemp and another productive player as opposed to 2-3 productive players and keeping Kemp on a team where he doesn't fit. I don’t know that it’s possible for this board to take the Dodgers more seriously. Most of he board seems to have assumed Harper is already there, despite the fact they haven’t made any of the moves necessary to allow it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, TheTruth05 said: Hopefully some are permanent lol Ha, I might get there eventually if s2k5 is having a bad day. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, 35thstreetswarm said: I don’t know that it’s possible for this board to take the Dodgers more seriously. Most of he board seems to have assumed Harper is already there, despite the fact they haven’t made any of the moves necessary to allow it to happen. I mean my post was in response to someone saying the Philies and Sox are Harper's options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: I was specifically speaking to HArper when I said Sox not loving their chances. I think the Sox tried to push the process to the end and it didn't go anywhere. My thought process all along was why go to a place that’s doing a rebuild with the possibility of the rebuild not working when you’re there for four years? That’s a good way to hurt your legacy, which Harper seems to care about a lot more than Manny. This is also where last seasons debacle at the major league level for the rebuild core hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Like someone posted earlier this week, it would be incredible to sign Machado and then sort of help the Dodgers out by taking on 2 (or all 3) of Puig, Pederson, and Wood filling 3B with Machado, and then 2 OFs or an OF and a SP. The Dodgers have more pieces that could be helpful to the White Sox than any team in baseball. You could add Chris Taylor to your list as well. I'd eat Kemp's contract if they can throw in Taylor or Pederson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, raBBit said: Corbin got roughly $30M more than expected and Phillies rotation isn't exactly needing too much help. He's also a 30 year old pitcher. Harper and Machado are 26 year old mega stars. They're a different market. A Phillies fan can point to the White Sox being outbid on Familia as a rationale to having doubts on the Sox chances with the stars. I think you would disagree with that preposition though. The Familia stuff is news to me and would love to hear more about our pursuits there. Regardless, my argument isn’t about the Sox, but rather that the Phillies have yet to live up to “stupid spending” statement. That doesn’t mean they can’t go all out for Machado, but I don’t think we should just assume they’ll blow us out of the water. So far, they have been pretty measured in their pursuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, raBBit said: If Sox strike out on Machado I think Sox definitely look to trade market as opposed to FA. Have you heard any names mentioned in particular? I would hope they are looking at younger cost controlled pieces that would be a part of the next core. I would imagine the Sox are going to dip into the abundance of OF prospects at some point to flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, raBBit said: Ha, I might get there eventually if s2k5 is having a bad day. I've been trying to get you banned for years now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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