Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, raBBit said: I think people should take the Dodgers more seriously. They have the most money of any team, they have the most creative front office, they have money to move associated to players that are good (Hi Cubs!) and they are conceivably Harper's preferred location. Plus they came up short of the trophy just barely to years in a row. They have all the depth a playoff team could need, now it's time for them to shed some of it and make way for another premium talent. Perhaps the hold up is they want to rid themselves of Matt Kemp and another productive player as opposed to 2-3 productive players and keeping Kemp on a team where he doesn't fit. Picking up some of the Dodgers pieces and facilitating salary moves wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world, imo. I still think it is unlikely the Sox sign either of these guys. They are clearly doing the best they can, but it is an uphill battle when you are competing with the Yankees and Dodgers. I won't necessarily make the same statement with the Phillies, other then they are a better positioned team to win sooner (vs. Sox). And if the Sox don't win on Machado and Harper and instead get creative and absorb salary to obtain good prospects and/or other pieces (say get a Bellinger to go with a Kemp or something)...than I think that could actually end up better (from a pure baseball perspective). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, fathom said: My thought process all along was why go to a place that’s doing a rebuild with the possibility of the rebuild not working when you’re there for four years? That’s a good way to hurt your legacy, which Harper seems to care about a lot more than Manny. This is also where last seasons debacle at the major league level for the rebuild core hurts. Jon Lester is going to be a Hall of Famer because of his foresight. I just don't think Harper went in this with the that open of mind that the team with the best mix of effort and contract is going to win him over. He's maybe the biggest free agent ever, he had his 2-3 choices in mind, and he expects them to meet his price. We'll see if that works for him. I just don't see Boras' behavior being indicative of someone who is worried or desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Chisoxfn said: Picking up some of the Dodgers pieces and facilitating salary moves wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world, imo. I still think it is unlikely the Sox sign either of these guys. They are clearly doing the best they can, but it is an uphill battle when you are competing with the Yankees and Dodgers. I won't necessarily make the same statement with the Phillies, other then they are a better positioned team to win sooner (vs. Sox). And if the Sox don't win on Machado and Harper and instead get creative and absorb salary to obtain good prospects and/or other pieces (say get a Bellinger to go with a Kemp or something)...than I think that could actually end up better (from a pure baseball perspective). I think Bellinger would be off the table but I agree with your sentiment. What's the word locally? Is there a lot of chatter on Harper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Hypothetically, let's say either one of these guys are close to signing with another team. Do you think their agent would circle back to Hahn and see if he can beat that offer? I'm not really sure how the negotiation process works in regards to contracts of this magnitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, raBBit said: The Dodgers have more pieces that could be helpful to the White Sox than any team in baseball. You could add Chris Taylor to your list as well. I'd eat Kemp's contract if they can throw in Taylor or Pederson. Taylor is an option I love for the Sox. Lots of versatility and still control on his contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rowand44 said: I've been trying to get you banned for years now! haha my guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, raBBit said: Jon Lester is going to be a Hall of Famer because of his foresight. I just don't think Harper went in this with the that open of mind that the team with the best mix of effort and contract is going to win him over. He's maybe the biggest free agent ever, he had his 2-3 choices in mind, and he expects them to meet his price. We'll see if that works for him. I just don't see Boras' behavior being indicative of someone who is worried or desperate. Do you think Lester signs with the Cubs though if he didn’t have the Theo connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, fathom said: Dodgers/Cubs, and yes the 10 years is just to lower the AAV for luxury tax reasons. I also wonder if Yanks get involved again if they miss on Manny. Wouldn’t an opt-out potentially have huge luxury tax implications? If they front load a contract to minimize the AAV prior to the opt-out, surely there would be an adjustment if Bryce exited the contract to ensure the Dodgers contributed their fair share towards the luxury taxes. Just like with income taxes, there is no way to game the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, raBBit said: The Dodgers have more pieces that could be helpful to the White Sox than any team in baseball. You could add Chris Taylor to your list as well. I'd eat Kemp's contract if they can throw in Taylor or Pederson. Yes. And you know there will be other teams looking to shred payroll at times (whether Yankees and/or Red Sox). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, raBBit said: Jon Lester is going to be a Hall of Famer because of his foresight. I just don't think Harper went in this with the that open of mind that the team with the best mix of effort and contract is going to win him over. He's maybe the biggest free agent ever, he had his 2-3 choices in mind, and he expects them to meet his price. We'll see if that works for him. I just don't see Boras' behavior being indicative of someone who is worried or desperate. Boras is doing what he always does, try and outlast teams. I personally think he is in a bad spot if Harper is dictating a small amount of locations. That just doesnt fit with how Boras operates. Boras likes random teams who get desperate and throw a ton of money at the situation. He wants a team like the Sox or Phillies to miss on Machado and overpay Harper. He hates having to wait on the Dodgers to decide, that takes away all of his power and control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, raBBit said: I think Bellinger would be off the table but I agree with your sentiment. What's the word locally? Is there a lot of chatter on Harper? Locally Harper barely gets discussed. A few reporters have pushed the angle. To be honest, what the Dodgers need is front line pitching. They have a lot of depth, but they don't have the front line horses to win a series, imo. I don't believe Bellinger would be off the table, either. Albeit, they aren't just going to "hand him" over, even if you took on payroll. You'd still have to give up prospects. Bellinger had a sophmore slump but he's a very capable defender (OF / 1B). I am surprised Dodgers haven't been in on Kluber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Wouldn’t an opt-out potentially have huge luxury tax implications? If they front load a contract to minimize the AAV prior to the opt-out, surely there would be an adjustment if Bryce exited the contract to ensure the Dodgers contributed their fair share towards the luxury taxes. Just like with income taxes, there is no way to game the system. Not sure how opt-outs are handled in re: the tax, but front loading wouldn’t minimize aav... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Chisoxfn said: Locally Harper barely gets discussed. A few reporters have pushed the angle. To be honest, what the Dodgers need is front line pitching. They have a lot of depth, but they don't have the front line horses to win a series, imo. Would love to see them get Kluber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Soxbadger said: Boras is doing what he always does, try and outlast teams. I personally think he is in a bad spot if Harper is dictating a small amount of locations. That just doesnt fit with how Boras operates. Boras likes random teams who get desperate and throw a ton of money at the situation. He wants a team like the Sox or Phillies to miss on Machado and overpay Harper. He hates having to wait on the Dodgers to decide, that takes away all of his power and control. I just disagree that he's waiting on the Dodgers in the sense that they hold the cards. He knows what his guy wants and knows what everyone is offering. It hasn't gone silent on Harper because Boras played himself into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: Locally Harper barely gets discussed. A few reporters have pushed the angle. To be honest, what the Dodgers need is front line pitching. They have a lot of depth, but they don't have the front line horses to win a series, imo. Totally agree with this take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: Hypothetically, let's say either one of these guys are close to signing with another team. Do you think their agent would circle back to Hahn and see if he can beat that offer? I'm not really sure how the negotiation process works in regards to contracts of this magnitude. Of course he would come back and see if he can get more money for his client lol Edited December 21, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo8 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Say the Sox sign machado and dodgers can’t find anybody for trades where does this Harper go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, raBBit said: I just disagree that he's waiting on the Dodgers in the sense that they hold the cards. He knows what his guy wants and knows what everyone is offering. It hasn't gone silent on Harper because Boras played himself into a corner. I’d be willing to suggest the lack of rumors is illustrating that Boras isn’t panicking yet. Now if you see the Dodgers or Cubs sign Pollock, that all changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, fathom said: I’d be willing to suggest the lack of rumors is illustrating that Boras isn’t panicking yet. Now if you see the Dodgers or Cubs sign Pollock, that all changes. Without making moves first, the chances that the Dodgers/Cubs sign Pollock are about as good as me and you crowdfunding a Pollock signing. I am just not sure this a fold in this saga we have to consider. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, raBBit said: Without making moves first, the chances that the Dodgers/Cubs sign Pollock are about as good as me and you crowdfunding a Pollock signing. I am just not sure this a fold in this saga we have to consider. That’s what I’m saying, these teams are being patient because they know who they’re targeting and who they have to get rid of to make it happen. You’re not seeing frivolous spending by either right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo8 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Is aj pollock still good I heard he regression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, timbo8 said: Is aj pollock still good I heard he regression Not for what he wants and QO attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Although it's nothing new, it does make the case for why Manny makes sense. Nice read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 If Hahn calls the Dodgers up and says we’ll take Kemp and Wood off your hands so you can sign Harper, but Verdugo and Ruiz have to be included do the Dodgers make that deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, raBBit said: I just disagree that he's waiting on the Dodgers in the sense that they hold the cards. He knows what his guy wants and knows what everyone is offering. It hasn't gone silent on Harper because Boras played himself into a corner. If Harper doesnt want the Sox/Phillies, then absolutely the Dodgers hold the cards. And Im not saying Boras has played himself into a corner, Im saying that it is possible Harper will play Boras into a corner. If Harper wont sign with the Phillies for any amount of money, its problematic for Boras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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