Pending White Sox Move? (*May contain partially digested news)

[Chicago White Sox]

So our own Buerhle>Wood posted the following rumor on Christmas Eve:

Quote

Sox have a move in place. I dont know what it is, but they have one. Guessing it will be announced after Christmas. #sources

Quote

There was something that's been in the works for two weeks and escalated very quickly this past weekend. All I got.

Seems like this might have got lost in the shuffle due to the holidays, but probably warrants its own thread given nothing else is going on right now.  What are people thinking this could be?  Free agent signing or trade?  Is this something substantial (possibly whale related) or simply more filler?

[caulfield12]

Well, pretty obviously it depends on how well-placed Buehrle>Wood's sources are...it's obviously hard to know if this is referring to Manny coming close to making a decision, a move in the reliever market (Ottavino, Robertson, Herrera, Britton, Miller or Cody Allen...can't believe we'd go after Kimbrel) or simply accumulating more players/coaches/front office personnel connected to Machado.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, pretty obviously it depends on how well-placed Buehrle>Wood's sources are...it's obviously hard to know if this is referring to Manny coming close to making a decision, a move in the reliever market (Ottavino, Robertson, Herrera, Britton, Miller or Cody Allen...can't believe we'd go after Kimbrel) or simply accumulating more players/coaches/front office personnel connected to Machado.

Seems like it’s got to be something of substance based on his wording and I can’t see us making a crazy trade right now.  Assuming it’s not Machado or Harper related, I’m keeping my prediction that it’s us signing either Ottavino or Kikuchi.

[caulfield12]

Has the market for Kikuchi really sunk that low because of the injury risk/concern and reports of diminished velocity?

At one point, it seems like he was heading for at least a $65-80 million contract.  

So this is wholly dependent on what the medical/training staff have to say, Cooper and some of the renowned Sox minor league pitching coaches, etc.

 

Anyway, the scouting reports (including this one, this one, and this one) say Kikuchi is a fastball/slider guy who also mixes in a curveball and a changeup. A few weeks ago Jon Morosi spoke to former big leaguer Frank Herrmann about Kikuchi. Here’s what Herrmann said about playing against him in Japan:

“When we have faced him, we have hit him pretty well, and that’s with a heavy left-handed lineup,” Herrmann told MLB.com. “The [velocity] and sharpness of the slider seems to be down from last year. The one positive I’ve seen from him is that is he’s becoming more than a [two-pitch] guy, which he predominantly was last season. He will now flip in a curveball early in the count and uses his changeup to guys that [are] on his fastball. Last year, there was never a need to get away from the [fastball/slider] combo.

…

“They all mention that his work ethic and competitiveness are top-notch,” Herrmann said. “It’s also known that he really wants to go to MLB and compete against the best.”

 

http://riveraveblues.com/2018/11/scouting-free-agent-market-yusei-kikuchi-181208/

 

Very extensive write-up about signing him from a Yankees' "win now" perspective.

Basically, if everything goes right, and he manages to stay healthy (which has been touch and go in recent years)...he could be a much more expensive version of Jose Quintana.

Edited December 26, 2018 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm just going to copy and paste things I have already said in the 2 other threads with Macahado's name on it.

Yasmani Grandal  because we are cornering the market on players whose names start with Y and Cubans ,He's also very close to Alonso . Would be so much fun if Alonso got us Grandal and Machado. If that happened I'd pick up his 2nd year right away.

BTW I don't really believe this. When everyone was believing it I said not gonna happen because of the lost pick draft and Castillo being a Manny bud wasn't going to be knocked out of the starting catchers gig. But I gotta admit it's a fun thought.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Copied and pasted from Endgame thread

I'm really starting to think the Sox get Machado. Look at all the things they have done to make him aware how much they want him.

1. Signed Welington Castillo

2. Tried to trade for him last year. Probably an underwhelming offer but it could be the idea was for the Sox to express early interest in him and just put it out there .

3. Traded for Colome a team mate of Machado on the 2017 Dominican Republic WBC team.

4. Traded for Ivan Nova another team mate of Machado's on the DR team.

5. Traded for Yonder Alonso , Machado's brother in law.

So who else is still out there who might make Machado happy? There's Adam Jones and Zach Britton. Nelson Cruz ex Oriole and DR team mate but not a fit any longer but the Sox did show interest in him supposedly before they got Alonso.  Sox also expressed interest in Familia, another ex DR team mate

So now there's the latest rumor that something started 2 weeks ago that came together quickly recently. Would anyone really be surprised if it was Adam Jones or Britton or a trade for Starling Marte another DR team mate of Machado ?

 

16 hours ago, Lillian said:

My guess would be Yasmani Grandal, who is another Latino. He's from Cuba and very close to Yonder. The accumulation of all of these Dominicans and Cubans does seem to indicate that it is intentional. Imagine our line up in 2020. Moncada, Machado, Eloy, Alonso, Abreu, Grandal, Robert, all from either Cuba or the Dominican Republic. Together with their Latino manager, this could be interesting. Just one big happy "familia"!!

My original guess was Grandal before I did a deeper dive into his ex team mates from the Orioles and the DR 2017 WBC team in the Harper/Machado thread where that rumor originated. But I wasn't really sold on my own idea. That post is in that thread.

It could be something that doesn't pan out while putting the finishing touches on it. It could just be dotting the I's and crossing the T's on Machado or a false rumor. But I think we have thrown some good names out there . Lots of speculation it could also be Ottavino.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 hours ago, Quinarvy said:

I'd be down for Britton.

He does seem to be the most logical choice of Manny Mates who also fits a need. Jones might not cost a lot but still not a CF any more. Would be OK in left or right but probably means no dice on Bryce.

Starling Marte would be interesting. He's getting to the age (30) and salary $10M where the Pirates usually start looking around for a replacement .Good defensively pretty fast  good offense. Would be decent short term OF . Guessing he would play CF .

His contract looks like this :

2019: $10 million
• 2020: $12.5 million club option ($2 million buyout)
• 2021: $13.5 million club option ($2 million buyout)

Theoretically he could be used for 1 , 2 , or 3 years . That really seems ideal when seeing how long it takes some of our OF prospects to emerge. Of course a much cheaper option than Harper and would most likely mean we're out on him once Machado is signed, which is probably the prudent move anyway.

No idea what the Pirates would want for him but leaves a nice chunk of change on the payroll to sign a whale pitcher next year  or do anything.

[Dick Allen]

Manny Machado or not, I don't think re-uniting the Baltimore Orioles is a good way to rebuild. 

[ptatc]

20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Manny Machado or not, I don't think re-uniting the Baltimore Orioles is a good way to rebuild. 

Yes. Not exactly a winning model.

[ChiSox59]

I think Kikuchi would be a nice move depending on the price.  IF he really has to sign by Jan 2, things need to move quickly.  

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think Kikuchi would be a nice move depending on the price.  IF he really has to sign by Jan 2, things need to move quickly.  

Yeah he's got a week left and the last update I read, it seemed like there wasn't a ton of interest.

[hogan873]

It'll be interesting to see if anything does indeed happen.  Sounds like Manny's decision won't be until next week at the earliest.  There's been little news on Harper.  My guess, if there was actually something brewing, is a pitcher signing.  I get the feeling that the Sox won't make any major moves until the Machado/Harper ordeal is over.  Signing either of those guys will force the Sox to make some other significant moves.  Missing out on both will probably lead to a few minor moves.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think Kikuchi would be a nice move depending on the price.  IF he really has to sign by Jan 2, things need to move quickly.  

A 2019 rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Kikuchi, Nova, & Giolito would at least be interesting and has a chance to be solid if enough things went right.  It also gives us a ton more flexibility heading into the 2020 season.  As long as the price is reasonable, I think it would be a move worth making.

[GreenSox]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

A 2019 rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Kikuchi, Nova, & Giolito would at least be interesting and has a chance to be solid if enough things went right.  It also gives us a ton more flexibility heading into the 2020 season.  As long as the price is reasonable, I think it would be a move worth making.

yes it would be interesting.   Prefer this plan to loading up with the Orioles.  It also seems to me that any trepidation about competitiveness isn't whether the Sox will be competitive in years 1-2 (they won't be and loading up with Orioles will guarantee it) but in the years after that.

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Yes. Not exactly a winning model.

Bad teams have good players too. They are bad because they don't have as many as the good teams. 

[BlackSox13]

You watch, the big news will be the signing and reuniting of the Chicago White Sox and Derek Holland. ?

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Bad teams have good players too. They are bad because they don't have as many as the good teams. 

The White Sox don't have enough good players, and Manny's friends aren't good enough either. Exactly what happens if you lure Manny in with his buddies and suddenly his buddies get replaced? 

Manny's best buddy is Benjamin Franklin. Show him enough of those and you won't need one former Oriole. 

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

yes it would be interesting.   Prefer this plan to loading up with the Orioles.  It also seems to me that any trepidation about competitiveness isn't whether the Sox will be competitive in years 1-2 (they won't be and loading up with Orioles will guarantee it) but in the years after that.

If the Sox add Machado and/or Harper, there is zero reason the Sox can’t be competitive in 2020.  Part of the allure of Kikuchi is it provides another veteran starter to the mix that can potentially take some pressure off Cease & Kopech in their first full seasons.  The Sox will not sit by idly and burn service time of numerous young players in 2020, they will do what it takes to put a competitive roster in place.

[nitetrain8601]

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Copied and pasted from Endgame thread

I'm really starting to think the Sox get Machado. Look at all the things they have done to make him aware how much they want him.

1. Signed Welington Castillo

2. Tried to trade for him last year. Probably an underwhelming offer but it could be the idea was for the Sox to express early interest in him and just put it out there .

3. Traded for Colome a team mate of Machado on the 2017 Dominican Republic WBC team.

4. Traded for Ivan Nova another team mate of Machado's on the DR team.

5. Traded for Yonder Alonso , Machado's brother in law.

So who else is still out there who might make Machado happy? There's Adam Jones and Zach Britton. Nelson Cruz ex Oriole and DR team mate but not a fit any longer but the Sox did show interest in him supposedly before they got Alonso.  Sox also expressed interest in Familia, another ex DR team mate

So now there's the latest rumor that something started 2 weeks ago that came together quickly recently. Would anyone really be surprised if it was Adam Jones or Britton or a trade for Starling Marte another DR team mate of Machado ?

 

My original guess was Grandal before I did a deeper dive into his ex team mates from the Orioles and the DR 2017 WBC team in the Harper/Machado thread where that rumor originated. But I wasn't really sold on my own idea. That post is in that thread.

It could be something that doesn't pan out while putting the finishing touches on it. It could just be dotting the I's and crossing the T's on Machado or a false rumor. But I think we have thrown some good names out there . Lots of speculation it could also be Ottavino.

So we are convinced that Manny will sign here because a bunch of players who couldn't get it done with the Orioles with him are now with the Sox?

 

And the whole, "they were teammates" is overstated. There are guys in any sport that are countrymen that can't stand each other. Abreu doesn't like Puig, Jordan didn't like Isiah Thomas, etc. It really does nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If the Sox add Machado and/or Harper, there is zero reason the Sox can’t be competitive in 2020.  Part of the allure of Kikuchi is it provides another veteran starter to the mix that can potentially take some pressure off Cease & Kopech in their first full seasons.  The Sox will not sit by idly and burn service time of numerous young players in 2020, they will do what it takes to put a competitive roster in place.

And then ruin it for 2022 on.  This is the nonsense this Front Office pulled in 2014-2016, while they rubbed their lucky rabbit's foot.
Adding Machado adds, what, 6 wins to the mighty 62 from 2018?  Where are the other 25 wins coming from?

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

And then ruin it for 2022 on.  This is the nonsense this Front Office pulled in 2014-2016, while they rubbed their lucky rabbit's foot.
Adding Machado adds, what, 6 wins to the mighty 62 from 2018?  Where are the other 25 wins coming from?

I have no idea how any of this is comparable to the 2014-2016 “non-sense”.  We have a bunch of young guys that will be hitting the show over the next two years, we have a bunch young guys in place that can better, we have significant payroll space that can be used to add impact talent, and we’ll have excess prospects that can be used to fill holes.  Our situation is completely different than the time period you’re referring to.

If your plan is wait for the entire W-S team to reach the pros, then this rebuild will fail because our first wave of talent will have already significant service time and will start getting expensive.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[spiderman]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So our own Buerhle>Wood posted the following rumor on Christmas Eve:

Seems like this might have got lost in the shuffle due to the holidays, but probably warrants its own thread given nothing else is going on right now.  What are people thinking this could be?  Free agent signing or trade?  Is this something substantial (possibly whale related) or simply more filler?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the White Sox are probably talking on several fronts, but, to some degree, are impacted on larger moves, by the wait for Harper/Machado.

Could they add another relief pitcher? Probably and it wouldn't impact the star moves they want to make.

Can they make a major trade for a proven talent elsewhere? Lesser possibility unless they believe it enhances the chances of a signing of Machado/Harper.

This is the time of the year to talk and and make moves. The White Sox have been fairly active already. 

[Baron]

16 minutes ago, spiderman said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the White Sox are probably talking on several fronts, but, to some degree, are impacted on larger moves, by the wait for Harper/Machado.

Could they add another relief pitcher? Probably and it wouldn't impact the star moves they want to make.

Can they make a major trade for a proven talent elsewhere? Lesser possibility unless they believe it enhances the chances of a signing of Machado/Harper.

This is the time of the year to talk and and make moves. The White Sox have been fairly active already. 

Well they've talked alot...they are good at that. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

My gut tells me it's Ottavino. The Sox were said to be looking for another relief pitcher even after the Colomé trade and he would make sense regardless of what happens with Harper/Machado.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I would have zero problem bringing in Jones and Britton if it means Machado comes along.

 

I wanna give Britton a look anyway, and, i know its kinda poo pood, Adam Jones from all I've seen/read/heard is a great leader. Having him around the young guys for a cpuple years could be beneficial. Jones as a bridge to Robert is perfect to me. 

 

Also, have you guys looked at that orioles rotation the lasr few years? Yeeesh. It's not Machado, Jones, or Britton that made that team so bad.