Pending White Sox Move? (*May contain partially digested news)

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

8 minutes ago, 2nd_city_saint787 said:

I would have zero problem bringing in Jones and Britton if it means Machado comes along.

 

I wanna give Britton a look anyway, and, i know its kinda poo pood, Adam Jones from all I've seen/read/heard is a great leader. Having him around the young guys for a cpuple years could be beneficial. Jones as a bridge to Robert is perfect to me. 

 

Also, have you guys looked at that orioles rotation the lasr few years? Yeeesh. It's not Machado, Jones, or Britton that made that team so bad. 

Jones can’t really play CF anymore. He’s in the same boat as McCutchen.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Starting pitching is the main reason why the Orioles have progressively been getting worse and worse...not Britton and Jones. So it's not like the Sox would be "reuniting the Orioles as a rebuilding strategy". Obviously those two aren't as good as they used to be but they are still productive players and would make the Sox a better team. Add in the fact that they are close with Machado and it's just a bonus.

[Bob Sacamano]

17 minutes ago, 2nd_city_saint787 said:

I would have zero problem bringing in Jones and Britton if it means Machado comes along.

 

I wanna give Britton a look anyway, and, i know its kinda poo pood, Adam Jones from all I've seen/read/heard is a great leader. Having him around the young guys for a cpuple years could be beneficial. Jones as a bridge to Robert is perfect to me. 

 

Also, have you guys looked at that orioles rotation the lasr few years? Yeeesh. It's not Machado, Jones, or Britton that made that team so bad. 

I'm good with Jones being brought in as a "leader" type guy off the bench to platoon with Palka in RF (Palka would get a big chunk of the PT being a lefty). You would just need a guy like Leury on the bench who can cover CF. Of course, that assumes no upgrade in CF nor a Harper signing.

Edited December 26, 2018 by soxfan2014

[TomPickle]

If people were mad about the acquisition of Yonder Alonso they should be equally mad at signing Adam Jones. It seems very unlikely he'd be cheaper than Alonso and he isn't a better player at this point in his career and he would further cut into the playing time of Palka/Delmonico.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

So we are convinced that Manny will sign here because a bunch of players who couldn't get it done with the Orioles with him are now with the Sox?

 

And the whole, "they were teammates" is overstated. There are guys in any sport that are countrymen that can't stand each other. Abreu doesn't like Puig, Jordan didn't like Isiah Thomas, etc. It really does nothing in the grand scheme of things.

You have to admit that almost everyone the Sox have added this off season plus Castillo from last season has some connection to Machado. I am not privy to how good their relationships are besides Alonso and Castillo. Maybe Hahn and company did their due diligence ,as they should, and discovered Colome and Nova were also close to him. If that is the case those guys serve dual purposes,  as an inning eater starting pitcher and a needed decent bullpen arm besides the connection to Machado. I think it's incredibly naive to think that Hahn was not aware of this when he acquired these guys. Also the majority of them are Dominicans like Machado who played with him in the WBC not ex Oriole team mates.

If indeed Machado does sign with the Sox I can safely say without hesitation that Hahn's efforts to make him feel at home and welcome were well rewarded. Castillo was the only ex Oriole team mate but also played with Machado on the WBC team.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

yes it would be interesting.   Prefer this plan to loading up with the Orioles.  It also seems to me that any trepidation about competitiveness isn't whether the Sox will be competitive in years 1-2 (they won't be and loading up with Orioles will guarantee it) but in the years after that.

Great ,Dick Allen makes a snide remark about the Orioles  and now that's whats considered relevant when I clearly stated there it's mostly all ex team mates from the WBC in 2017. I did mention Adam Jones and Britton and the Sox are still looking for relief pitching so Britton seems are a decent choice. Jones probably not. Not exactly loading up .

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I have no idea how any of this is comparable to the 2014-2016 “non-sense”.  We have a bunch of young guys that will be hitting the show over the next two years, we have a bunch young guys in place that can better, we have significant payroll space that can be used to add impact talent, and we’ll have excess prospects that can be used to fill holes.  Our situation is completely different than the time period you’re referring to.

If your plan is wait for the entire W-S team to reach the pros, then this rebuild will fail because our first wave of talent will have already significant service time and will start getting expensive.

The point was whether this team can contend in 2019.  The only way for that to happen is to start trading these prospects for players like Reamulto and others on 1/2 year contracts...and then signing guys like Pollock, who is injury prone and already in decline at 31.  And even with that, it would take a lot of luck.    Machado or Harper would be a piece of the core, so I'm all for signing one...but to win next year with one of them is unrealistic and would be damaging to attempt.
The only way to build this team into a winner is to build a core of young talent. Right now, the core stands at zero.  None of the young players have proven that they are above average starters, much less all star level players.   They may become one, they should, but we don't know which ones will and which ones won't.
In 2014, they decided that the rebuild/retool was finished, and started trading for rents off of 73 wins.  This would be similar.

Edited December 26, 2018 by GreenSox

[Jack Parkman]

I hope it is Kikuchi. He'd give the Sox an interesting rotation and if Rodon, Lopez and Giolito take a step or two forward they could win 75 games just on that alone. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The White Sox don't have enough good players, and Manny's friends aren't good enough either. Exactly what happens if you lure Manny in with his buddies and suddenly his buddies get replaced? 

Manny's best buddy is Benjamin Franklin. Show him enough of those and you won't need one former Oriole. 

Don't be naive. You also have to make him feel welcome and wanted. Every little thing you can do to entice perhaps one of the most highly regarded FA of the decade helps. Of course the money has to be there too but if the money is all fairly equal then I am fine with the guys we got connected to him so far.It's not like they are long term pieces but a year or 2 of playing with people close to you is a good thing. That you can spin it otherwise its just nonsensical contrarian BS that you are known for.

[Saufley]

11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I hope it is Kikuchi. He'd give the Sox an interesting rotation and if Rodon, Lopez and Giolito take a step or two forward they could win 75 games just on that alone. 

Sorry if this has been questioned, but haven't I read that Kikuchi has a shoulder issue and his K's have gone down slightly (maybe related to that shoulder problem)? Just asking.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Saufley

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

46 minutes ago, 2nd_city_saint787 said:

I would have zero problem bringing in Jones and Britton if it means Machado comes along.

 

I wanna give Britton a look anyway, and, i know its kinda poo pood, Adam Jones from all I've seen/read/heard is a great leader. Having him around the young guys for a cpuple years could be beneficial. Jones as a bridge to Robert is perfect to me. 

 

Also, have you guys looked at that orioles rotation the lasr few years? Yeeesh. It's not Machado, Jones, or Britton that made that team so bad. 

They know that . They are just being Dicks. The guys the Sox brought in so far are all ex 2017 Dominican Republic team mates not ex Orioles (so far). Welington Castillo was both. If Machado signs with the Sox that probably won't even shut them up as it will be" it was all about the money not those ex WBC team mates and Alonso" as the reason he signed. But everyone else will know it was a combination of the money and making him feel at home here.

[Dick Allen]

24 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Don't be naive. You also have to make him feel welcome and wanted. Every little thing you can do to entice perhaps one of the most highly regarded FA of the decade helps. Of course the money has to be there too but if the money is all fairly equal then I am fine with the guys we got connected to him so far.It's not like they are long term pieces but a year or 2 of playing with people close to you is a good thing. That you can spin it otherwise its just nonsensical contrarian BS that you are known for.

Being naive is loading up 3 or 4 precious roster spots to make someone feel happy. What if all those guys suck, and they need to be punted away? We can't make Manny unhappy. We already may require him to run to 1B, and maybe play 3B for his $300 million. Somehow Manny has done fine playing without Alonso, playing without Castillo, playing without Jones, playing without Britton. Make the best roster possible. This isn't the NBA where 3 superstar buddies make a title contender, and after Manny, at this point, all these guys are journeymen at best.

Alonso and Castillo are enough friends unless his other friends can help the team actually win games. These guys are going to move on anyways in a year or maybe less. Then what? Do they have to find more friends?  There are a few guys on the roster we better all hope he doesn't become friends with if he signs or Hahn will be handcuffed.

 

One problem with signing a high profiled Boras client, is Boras becomes an unofficial assistant GM. That's nothing compared to this. Alonso can be Manny's jack Haley. That's plenty.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The point was whether this team can contend in 2019.  The only way for that to happen is to start trading these prospects for players like Reamulto and others on 1/2 year contracts...and then signing guys like Pollock, who is injury prone and already in decline at 31.  And even with that, it would take a lot of luck.    Machado or Harper would be a piece of the core, so I'm all for signing one...but to win next year with one of them is unrealistic and would be damaging to attempt.
The only way to build this team into a winner is to build a core of young talent. Right now, the core stands at zero.  None of the young players have proven that they are above average starters, much less all star level players.   They may become one, they should, but we don't know which ones will and which ones won't.
In 2014, they decided that the rebuild/retool was finished, and started trading for rents off of 73 wins.  This would be similar.

Are you howling into the wind as usual ?Where was it said anyone thought the team could compete in 2019 ? That is not the prevailing opinion.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Being naive is loading up 3 or 4 precious roster spots to make someone feel happy. What if all those guys suck, and they need to be punted away? We can't make Manny unhappy. We already may require him to run to 1B, and maybe play 3B for his $300 million. Somehow Manny has done fine playing with Alonso, playing without Castillo, playing without Jones, playing without Britton. Make the best roster possible. This isn't the NBA where 3 superstar buddies make a title contender, and after Manny, at this point, all these guys are journeymen at best.

Glad you aren't the GM. Just ignore that 2019 won't be a competitive year and that even his ex team mates might not be here for the competitive years . So if Manny is signed long term but knows the Sox suck but might be very good in 2-3 years  how can the Sox entice him not to sign with teams who are more competitive now ? Fill spaces that needed to be filled for a year or 2 anyway like an innings eater and BP arms with guys who make Manny feel at home.

Beside you are not really arguing with me but with Rick Hahn . It is no coincidence that all these recent acquirees  have some connection to Machado. It makes sense . Write Hahn an email and tell him he's naive. They plan on making the best roster possible just not 2019. I guess you would have just been a lazy GM and said look here's the money signed Machado and then filled the empty spaces in the rotation and bullpen with who  knowing you won't be competive in 2019 no matter who you get . Wouldn't Colome and Britton fill the same purpose as any other good relievers ? So why not get the guys who can serve the dual purpose of also being connected to Machado.

Everything you are saying is window dressing . Somehow Manny has done fine playing without guys you mentioned. Exactly he has. What the hell does that have to do with getting him to sign with us ?

[OmarComing25]

43 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The point was whether this team can contend in 2019.  The only way for that to happen is to start trading these prospects for players like Reamulto and others on 1/2 year contracts...and then signing guys like Pollock, who is injury prone and already in decline at 31.  And even with that, it would take a lot of luck.    Machado or Harper would be a piece of the core, so I'm all for signing one...but to win next year with one of them is unrealistic and would be damaging to attempt.
The only way to build this team into a winner is to build a core of young talent. Right now, the core stands at zero.  None of the young players have proven that they are above average starters, much less all star level players.   They may become one, they should, but we don't know which ones will and which ones won't.
In 2014, they decided that the rebuild/retool was finished, and started trading for rents off of 73 wins.  This would be similar.

The original comment you replied to talked about contending in 2020, not 2019.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Glad you aren't the GM. Just ignore that 2019 won't be a competitive year and that even his ex team mates might not be here for the competitive years . So if Manny is signed long term but knows the Sox suck but might be very good in 2-3 years  how can the Sox entice him not to sign with teams who are more competitive now ? Fill spaces that needed to be filled for a year or 2 anyway like an innings eater and BP arms with guys who make Manny feel at home.

Beside you are not really arguing with me but with Rick Hahn . It is no coincidence that all these recent acquirees  have some connection to Machado. It makes sense . Write Hahn an email and tell him he's naive. They plan on making the best roster possible just not 2019. I guess you would have just been a lazy GM and said look here's the money signed Machado and then filled the empty spaces in the rotation and bullpen with who  knowing you won't be competive in 2019 no matter who you get . Wouldn't Colome and Britton fill the same purpose as any other good relievers ? So why not get the guys who can serve the dual purpose of also being connected to Machado.

Everything you are saying is window dressing . Somehow Manny has done fine playing without guys you mentioned. Exactly he has. What the hell does that have to do with getting him to sign with us ?

Alonso does. Probably Castillo does, but at least Castillo is a halfway decent catcher. I already said if he signs Machado, Alonso was a great trade, if he doesn't, it's laughable. But you can't continue to fill roster spots with his friends. He can make some new ones. The object if he signs will be to win, not what he will be doing after the game. 

One of the major guys quoted an exec wondering what happens if the Sox play starts going south after they signed Machado. He thought it could get ugly. But if friends are required, what if they suck? Are the White Sox stuck with them? What if it upsets Manny? 

The pitch should be to field the best team possible, not we'll just load it up with your friends.  If Castillo and Alonso can't make him comfortable enough, it just shows how low the White Sox organization is regarded.

[justBLAZE]

Looks like another one of those industry vague rumors, there is a move in place, it will happen.. sometime.  Next.

[he gone.]

I like my friends and all, but if you give me a few million dollars more I could care less if I play on the same team. These guys train in the offseason together, can travel wherever in the offseason together, spend spring training together (dependent of AZ or FL) ... I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, justBLAZE said:

Looks like another one of those industry vague rumors, there is a move in place, it will happen.. sometime.  Next.

I would like to believe there is more meat on the bone with this one.  Realistically if it’s Kikuchi, we should hear something this week.  Doubt they risk waiting until the actual deadline.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Alonso does. Probably Castillo does, but at least Castillo is a halfway decent catcher. I already said if he signs Machado, Alonso was a great trade, if he doesn't, it's laughable. But you can't continue to fill roster spots with his friends. He can make some new ones. The object if he signs will be to win, not what he will be doing after the game. 

One of the major guys quoted an exec wondering what happens if the Sox play starts going south after they signed Machado. He thought it could get ugly. But if friends are required, what if they suck? Are the White Sox stuck with them? What if it upsets Manny? 

The pitch should be to field the best team possible, not we'll just load it up with your friends.  If Castillo and Alonso can't make him comfortable enough, it just shows how low the White Sox organization is regarded.

I fail to understand what it is that you don't understand.

1. The pitch to Manny probably was the Sox will be good just not right away but in the mean time to make you feel welcome and at home we will TEMPORARILY fill spots we need to fill anyway with friends and family. I highly doubt Manny will be upset if Nova gets replaced by Kopech Cease or Dunning or if Castillo is the backup for a year to Grandal and then leaves. Colome and Britton could also be good TEMPORARY signings  when they might get replaced by whoever among the young BP arms becomes good.

Adam Jones or Starling Marte would be a good TEMPORARY signings/trade until replaced by upcoming young OF's

2. Why do you continue to think Machado is not aware of all these things ?

3. Since all those friends are TEMPORARY until replaced by better younger players in order to field the BEST TEAM POSSIBLE.

Please write Hahn I just happen to agree with him. I'm done with you on this.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, BrianAnderson said:

I like my friends and all, but if you give me a few million dollars more I could care less if I play on the same team. These guys train in the offseason together, can travel wherever in the offseason together, spend spring training together (dependent of AZ or FL) ... I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

That’s you, not everyone is going to feel that way.  And honestly, this is about giving us an edge over the Phillies if the money is close and nothing more.

[chitownsportsfan]

46 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Being naive is loading up 3 or 4 precious roster spots to make someone feel happy. What if all those guys suck, and they need to be punted away? We can't make Manny unhappy. We already may require him to run to 1B, and maybe play 3B for his $300 million. Somehow Manny has done fine playing without Alonso, playing without Castillo, playing without Jones, playing without Britton. Make the best roster possible. This isn't the NBA where 3 superstar buddies make a title contender, and after Manny, at this point, all these guys are journeymen at best.

Alonso and Castillo are enough friends unless his other friends can help the team actually win games. These guys are going to move on anyways in a year or maybe less. Then what? Do they have to find more friends?  There are a few guys on the roster we better all hope he doesn't become friends with if he signs or Hahn will be handcuffed.

 

One problem with signing a high profiled Boras client, is Boras becomes an unofficial assistant GM. That's nothing compared to this. Alonso can be Manny's jack Haley. That's plenty.

Quality rant but machado isn't  a boras client.  Have another egg nog you're rolling.

[Bob Sacamano]

11 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

I like my friends and all, but if you give me a few million dollars more I could care less if I play on the same team. These guys train in the offseason together, can travel wherever in the offseason together, spend spring training together (dependent of AZ or FL) ... I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

Right. It's not like he's the first player ever to sign with a new team after spending his entire career with one team. It happens all the time. Players get over it.

[Bob Sacamano]

11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Quality rant but machado isn't  a boras client.  Have another egg nog you're rolling.

He's not implying that Boras is his agent. He's saying what Boras does when he becomes an "unofficial GM" is nothing compared to how this is playing out.

Edited December 26, 2018 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Quality rant but machado isn't  a boras client.  Have another egg nog you're rolling.

Rant yes quality no. Machado is fully aware of the Sox situation and the purpose his friends play. To argue otherwise  is just arguing to argue.Manny wiill not be upset having his friends leave when they are replaced with better players that make the Sox better. He wants to win but while waiting to win he gets to play with family and friends. Besides he'll probably get a chance to opt out anyway  even if he's as happy as can be.