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27 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

I think Jonathan India would be a more realistic, and easier player to acquire, maybe for a prospect-swap with Dunning. But I would also love for them to shoot for someone like Senzel first, and then if the Reds are asking more than Cease + backend top 10 guy, then maneuver down to India.

Given our strength of pitching, I think Dunning for India is something I would do.

I'd do that for sure. I like Dunning, but the Sox have several other talented arms and 3B is a bigger need right now, assuming the Sox miss out on Machado. 

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15 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I'd do that for sure. I like Dunning, but the Sox have several other talented arms and 3B is a bigger need right now, assuming the Sox miss out on Machado. 

While we have "Several talented arms", I still hesitate to give up pitching until these guys are established big leaguers. I don't want to block them, but I hate giving them up.

Just one way it could go - if Dunning and Kopech and Cease aren't ready for full seasons through mid-2020, moving Rodon could create a need for all of them. 

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I don’t like the idea of trading starting pitching prospects for India.  If they’re willing to take an OF prospect, then by all means explore it.  But the reality is Moncada will likely be moved to 3B (this off-season if I had to guess) if we don’t land Machado.  It would be great to have an insurance policy if Madrigal doesn’t work out, but pitching depth is much bigger concern for me right now.

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2 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I might be in the minority on this, but I do not like the idea of moving Moncada to 3B. At all.

I don’t either, but if Madrigal forces the issue it’s either 3B or OF for Moncada.  I’d put in the OF and hope we can sign a legit 3B, but Hahn been telegraphing a Yoan to 3B move all off-season.

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t either, but if Madrigal forces the issue it’s either 3B or OF for Moncada.  I’d put in the OF and hope we can sign a legit 3B, but Hahn been telegraphing a Yoan to 3B move all off-season.

I will be far less mad about moving Moncada next offseason if Madrigal has come out at WS and BHam and actually forced the issue with his bat. I promise. I don't care how developed he was supposed to be when he was drafted, one injury or a slow development of power and then we're talking about having to sign a 2nd baseman next offseason when the best FA on the market is a 3b. 

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I will be far less mad about moving Moncada next offseason if Madrigal has come out at WS and BHam and actually forced the issue with his bat. I promise. I don't care how developed he was supposed to be when he was drafted, one injury or a slow development of power and then we're talking about having to sign a 2nd baseman next offseason when the best FA on the market is a 3b. 

Or they could just move Moncada back to 2B if they land Arenado and Madrigal shows he’s not ready yet.  There’s a ton of value in having flexible players.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Or they could just move Moncada back to 2B if they land Arenado and Madrigal shows he’s not ready yet.  There’s a ton of value in having flexible players.

I can't say how much I hate the idea of moving Moncada from position to position over and over right when his defense is starting to develop at the spot AND when what we really want him doing is developing as a hitter. I literally don't have the words for it. Yeah kid you need to cut the strikeouts, but here go spend your entire spring training learning a new position, and no one sees a problem with that? If Madrigal comes out and destroys our minor leagues this year I will understand one move, but we have a guy who needs a TON of work with his approach at the plate, and we want to casually ask him to learn a new position full time? That seems like a recipe for Moncada to just flop with the bat for another year and for us to be wondering what happened.

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I can't say how much I hate the idea of moving Moncada from position to position over and over right when his defense is starting to develop at the spot AND when what we really want him doing is developing as a hitter. I literally don't have the words for it. Yeah kid you need to cut the strikeouts, but here go spend your entire spring training learning a new position, and no one sees a problem with that? If Madrigal comes out and destroys our minor leagues this year I will understand one move, but we have a guy who needs a TON of work with his approach at the plate, and we want to casually ask him to learn a new position full time? That seems like a recipe for Moncada to just flop with the bat for another year and for us to be wondering what happened.

So learning a new position will prevent him from developing as a hitter?  Is that what you’re saying, because I got bad news for you, it’s very likely going to happen if we don’t land Machado.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

So learning a new position will prevent him from developing as a hitter?  Is that what you’re saying, because I got bad news for you, it’s very likely going to happen if we don’t land Machado.

Frankly, yes, there's only so much time for him to work on stuff and we called him up when he was very raw. He's not an experienced USA collegiate player who has been well coached since he was 12, and we are making a mistake if we treat him that way. He's getting good at one thing, defense, and desperately needs to work on the second thing - pitch recognition. His approach with the bat is the priority this year, 110%. He's comfortable and good at defense at 2b, but if his approach at the plate doesn't improve then even if we move him to 3b we're going to be talking about how we need a new 3b next offseason too.

One move, once Madrigal forces the issue - fine. Let Moncada develop at the plate this yeear. 

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2 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Given our strength of pitching, I think Dunning for India is something I would do.

I'm fairly confident the Reds wouldn't do that deal.  I don't think you can trade Dunning right now with the elbow concerns.  The Sox just don't have major league ready talent to interest the Reds unless you want to swap Eloy or Cease.  

I think Realmuto to the Reds makes alot of sense.  

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3 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I'm fairly confident the Reds wouldn't do that deal.  I don't think you can trade Dunning right now with the elbow concerns.  The Sox just don't have major league ready talent to interest the Reds unless you want to swap Eloy or Cease.  

I think Realmuto to the Reds makes alot of sense.  

I don't understand why the Reds would be looking for major league talent right now anyway. They are years away from competing.

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Just now, Whitesox27 said:

If they insist on him switching positions, I'd much rather have him go to CF. Eloy/Moncada/Robert in the OF and then get a legit 3B either through free agency or a trade. I just don't think Moncada's skillset will be utilized to its full potential at 3B. 

That's assuming Moncada could be an average CF which I dunno, maybe, that's an awful lot of work. Eloy/Robert/Moncada seems likely to be a better defensive OF for me, assuming all the guys stay healthy. But Eloy Robert Rutherford is probably better defensively than that, maybe better on both sides unless Moncada makes big upgrades with the bat this year, and moving Moncada to a new position - means he has less time to work on his offense.

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2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t like the idea of trading starting pitching prospects for India.  If they’re willing to take an OF prospect, then by all means explore it.  But the reality is Moncada will likely be moved to 3B (this off-season if I had to guess) if we don’t land Machado.  It would be great to have an insurance policy if Madrigal doesn’t work out, but pitching depth is much bigger concern for me right now.

The thing is, if we wanted India that badly, we could've just drafted him instead of Madrigal. Clearly the FO had a preference 

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3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

The thing is, if we wanted India that badly, we could've just drafted him instead of Madrigal. Clearly the FO had a preference 

You think having both of them is the same as just having India? It's obviously possible they liked both of those guys, but preferred Madrigal. There could be a decent chance they would love to have both of them if India was on the table in talks with the Reds. Hell, they likely know more about India that nearly every other prospect the Reds have in their system because of their pre-draft work on him.

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49 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That's assuming Moncada could be an average CF which I dunno, maybe, that's an awful lot of work. Eloy/Robert/Moncada seems likely to be a better defensive OF for me, assuming all the guys stay healthy. But Eloy Robert Rutherford is probably better defensively than that, maybe better on both sides unless Moncada makes big upgrades with the bat this year, and moving Moncada to a new position - means he has less time to work on his offense.

Moncada was basically a league average hitter in the majors as a 23 year old.  He has all tools / skills to be an elite hitter with more time & development.  To think that Blake Rutherford might be a better hitter than him at this point in time is quite frankly ridiculous.  Second, Blake has significantly less speed and a below average arm for RF.  With his speed & 70 grade arm Yoan could potentially provide Adam Eaton like defense in RF.  Again, it would take some time, but his upside as OF is way above Blake’s and it’s not even close.

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24 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

The thing is, if we wanted India that badly, we could've just drafted him instead of Madrigal. Clearly the FO had a preference 

No doubt, but if we’re looking to diversify our prospects a bit, trading one of secondary OF prospects for someone like India could make a lot of sense.

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3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Frankly, yes, there's only so much time for him to work on stuff and we called him up when he was very raw. He's not an experienced USA collegiate player who has been well coached since he was 12, and we are making a mistake if we treat him that way. He's getting good at one thing, defense, and desperately needs to work on the second thing - pitch recognition. His approach with the bat is the priority this year, 110%. He's comfortable and good at defense at 2b, but if his approach at the plate doesn't improve then even if we move him to 3b we're going to be talking about how we need a new 3b next offseason too.

One move, once Madrigal forces the issue - fine. Let Moncada develop at the plate this yeear. 

Except we can equally apply this to Beckham (Golden Spikes winner, Team USA, etc.) on the experienced side as to Viciedo on the other side of the coin (like Moncada, raw defensively).  Not saying Viciedo was ever a sure thing to stick at 3B, but he always at least had the arm strength for it.

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4 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

I think Jonathan India would be a more realistic, and easier player to acquire, maybe for a prospect-swap with Dunning. But I would also love for them to shoot for someone like Senzel first, and then if the Reds are asking more than Cease + backend top 10 guy, then maneuver down to India.

Given our strength of pitching, I think Dunning for India is something I would do.

Except the Reds wouldn't do that...because if Dunning's not 100% physically, he could be further away from the big leagues than India.

The idea of India as a Marwin Gonzalez-style (jack of all trades) is a good one, but it's going to take a lot more.  I'm not sure they would do it for Dunning and Hansen, even.

The White Sox don't have nearly as much pitching depth as it seems on paper if Kopech has a setback and Dunning's not 100%.  That puts everything basically on Cease, who's already had one TJ.  

Risky, because paying top dollar for FA starters like Bumgarner, Cole or Sale is even RISKIER than trading top prospects.

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