southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, fathom said: Not big, but to me it meant acquiring big league assets (controllable) instead of going another offseason failing to bring in anyone that could be projected as being on the next contending team. Still plenty of time to go this offseason, but I highly, highly doubt their intentions were to just bring in stop-gap measures like they have so far. I read this as they were either doing roster dressing for 2019, or they were bringing in whales if they could get them, but they weren't going to entertain anyone for the mid-term or the type of guys who COULD be available when they were good again. They were targeting a couple of the top guys, but weren't really interested in the 2nd and 3rd tier guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 51 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: The offseason is just not fun anymore. When your team is one of the few in on some of the most exciting and celebrated free agents in history, it should be fun to follow. This is frustrating and old and I hate it. I don’t know if it’s social media that’s to blame, or another instance of teams and players finding “optimal” strategies that just happen to be worse and less fun for fans to following consume, but it sucks and i wish it would end. Yea totally. I think the problem has a lot to do with pride. For some reason on this planet, people think it’s cool to find something out before others. Unfortunately due to social media, that human disease is now infecting its way into offseason baseball. None of it matters until the White Sox issue a statement saying “We signed so and so.” But for some reason, pride has overun fun speculation among fans. The big guys like Rosenthal have a lot to blame because they give props to whoever breaks a story...which is absolutely insane to me! These aren’t fucking stories; it’s sports. The story is when somebody signs officially, not a moment before! But we are forced to partake as fans now! Rant over since I have to go check Twitter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I don't really blame them for 2006, but I do blame them for the 2001-04 teams, as well the 2010 and 2012 team. They were a couple players away during those years, and they seemed to be content finishing second. They could have put themselves over the top, but didn't. 01-04 still infuriates me. We might as well blame Quentin for sabotaging 2008, too. Other than Sale, Q, Reed or Jones...name another of the 10+ rookie pitchers we used in 2010. It was mostly smoke and mirrors. The defense completely did a 180 after actually looking solid for most of the year, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: No, that wasn't what I was referring to. What I meant was they acquired, for premium talent, players that could be amongst the best in the game or completely flop. I actually applaud them for doing that, but people need to realize there is a 20% chance that they ALL miss. It doesn't necessarily mean they made a bad or wrong trade, it just means they got incredibly unlucky. They just drafted in the first round just about the safest pick in recent draft history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: You can blame them, and credit them, for every year. But your idea that the Sox lost momentum from 2000 and 2005 due to unwillingness to spend is just flat wrong. That isnt my argument. I don't think they lost momentum, I think they squandered their talent and got the bare minimum out of it due to their unwillingness to spend. They could have made 2-4 more playoff appearances and won another world series or two during that span. They were really talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No, that wasn't what I was referring to. What I meant was they acquired, for premium talent, players that could be amongst the best in the game or completely flop. I actually applaud them for doing that, but people need to realize there is a 20% chance that they ALL miss. It doesn't necessarily mean they made a bad or wrong trade, it just means they got incredibly unlucky. The bolded is exactly what happens at the core of most any rebuild. Pretty sure everyone here knows that, but it's not what you were saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: That isnt my argument. I don't think they lost momentum, I think they squandered their talent and got the bare minimum out of it due to their unwillingness to spend. They could have made 2-4 more playoff appearances and won another world series or two during that span. They were really talented. I literally just illustrated that this is, again, flat wrong. They INCREASED SPENDING, by quite a lot, after 2000 and after 2005. You are just wrong on this. Move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I read this as they were either doing roster dressing for 2019, or they were bringing in whales if they could get them, but they weren't going to entertain anyone for the mid-term or the type of guys who COULD be available when they were good again. They were targeting a couple of the top guys, but weren't really interested in the 2nd and 3rd tier guys. The only remaining player who makes much sense is Grandal...and that’s only if you believe we dump Castillo and/or Alonso if Machado doesn’t sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: They just drafted in the first round just about the safest pick in recent draft history. And have gone over their pool allotment in more years than not since Hostetler took over the draft team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: They just drafted in the first round just about the safest pick in recent draft history. Disagree. I think he's boom-bust based on extra base power and lack of walks. Madrigal has to hit 40-50 2B and 8-12 3B along with 8-12 HR, and has to hit .320 annually for it to be a hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: The bolded is exactly what happens at the core of most any rebuild. Pretty sure everyone here knows that, but it's not what you were saying. Well, if that wasn't what I said, the bolded is what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Guys, I'm not sure if this thread has become about the Fall of the 2006 Sox, the rebuild being delayed, or Hunger Games V: Wakanda, but get back on topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: That isnt my argument. I don't think they lost momentum, I think they squandered their talent and got the bare minimum out of it due to their unwillingness to spend. They could have made 2-4 more playoff appearances and won another world series or two during that span. They were really talented. We did add a lot of payroll, guys like Thome and Javy. How can you think you don’t have enough pitching when you enter the year with Contreras (the best pitcher in baseball during that stretch), Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, Javy and Brandon McCarthy. You remember how expensive that rotation was...? If anything, Cotts and Politte not repeating should have been expected. But if it was THAT easy, the Cubs would have won the last two World Series titles to go with 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Quin said: Guys, I'm not sure if this thread has become about the Fall of the 2006 Sox, the rebuild being delayed, or Hunger Games V: Wakanda, but get back on topic. Jim Thome would have been great in Hunger Games DON'T @ ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: I literally just illustrated that this is, again, flat wrong. They INCREASED SPENDING, by quite a lot, after 2000 and after 2005. You are just wrong on this. Move on. Sure they increased spending, but they never spent enough to put them over the top. They never had the "Fuck it, we're going for it" spending spree they needed to put them among the best in the AL. Remember KW with the Dollar/50 Cents comment? C'mon. They didn't spend at a time when spending on FA actually made some sense, and now they're going to do it when it doesn't make nearly as much sense. Edited January 2, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: They just drafted in the first round just about the safest pick in recent draft history. Shut it down. The Sox one draft pick was a high floor guy. They didn't go over their allotment to sign a high school kid at the end of the signing period this year, or spend $50 million out of pocket on a raw centerfielder out of Cuba, or anything like that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 I too like to make critiques that can never be disproven because i will just change the degree of what was necessary to make my point valid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 If you're trying to argue that the Sox have a lot of low ceiling, high risk guys, I can see that. But they also have plenty of high ceiling, low risk guys. It's all about having enough depth in the system to cover for prospect failures that may occur, as well as having guys come out of nowhere to be major leaguers. Astros had no problem overcoming Singleton tanking, as well as the Cubs were able to develop a starting catcher in Contreras that didn't have a huge pedigree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, NorthSideSox72 said: Jim Thome would have been great in Hunger Games DON'T @ ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said: Jim Thome would have been great in Hunger Games DON'T @ ME Not sure it was possible to crossover since pixar owned his rights for mr. incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Shut it down. The Sox one draft pick was a high floor guy. They didn't go over their allotment to sign a high school kid at the end of the signing period this year, or spend $50 million out of pocket on a raw centerfielder out of Cuba, or anything like that either. I think you took what I said wrong. I was saying that Jack was wrong in saying they've been too risky with their acquisitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: If you're trying to argue that the Sox have a lot of low ceiling, high risk guys, I can see that. But they also have plenty of high ceiling, low risk guys. It's all about having enough depth in the system to cover for prospect failures that may occur, as well as having guys come out of nowhere to be major leaguers. Astros had no problem overcoming Singleton tanking, as well as the Cubs were able to develop a starting catcher in Contreras that didn't have a huge pedigree. Until the sox can figure out getting production from lat am, they will be playing with one hand tied behind their backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Thome would have been awful in Hunger Games. He would have apologized to anyone that he hurt. I've heard great stories about how nice of a guy he was with his peers, even after on the field "tension". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, fathom said: If you're trying to argue that the Sox have a lot of low ceiling, high risk guys, I can see that. But they also have plenty of high ceiling, low risk guys. It's all about having enough depth in the system to cover for prospect failures that may occur, as well as having guys come out of nowhere to be major leaguers. Astros had no problem overcoming Singleton tanking, as well as the Cubs were able to develop a starting catcher in Contreras that didn't have a huge pedigree. No I think almost their entire top 10 as of Jan 2018 was extreme ceiling extreme risk guys. The variance of outcomes with the majority of the Sox prospects other than Eloy and Dunning are wild. Any hitter could be a star 5+WAR player or a bust and any pitcher could be an ace or a complete washout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Until the sox can figure out getting production from lat am, they will be playing with one hand tied behind their backs. It is slowly starting to happen, though the traffic jams at the lowest levels are making it harder to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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