steveno89 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Everything is lining up for this deal to actually be tolerable, not even an overpay. If the sox don't land either one, I do not think they were serious, and if they were serious then they were also naive, and if they were not naive, then they were arrogant. Sometimes I think this front office thinks they are a lot more clever and successful than they are. There are no runners up for free agents. And because this needs to be said, I do think sox are going to sign him, that it is a monumental achievement to sign and will be a true sign of the changing, positive capabilities when it happens. But, there is no try here. If they fail it is a failure and if they succeed it's a success. This market did not get out of control, they said they were going to operate differently, then do it. But if they thought being cute and creative signing friends was a substitute for providing the cash required to land a once-every-few years prized free agent...that's bad. I agree with all of this^ KW and Hahn would face an angry mob all season if they come up short on both players. They have put all of their chips in on nabbing a whale, and not delivering would crush a suffering fanbase. We do not need to be competitive in 2019, or even 2020 for that matter, but there better damn be significant hope for the future coming from outside the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, bmags said: But if they thought being cute and creative signing friends was a substitute for providing the cash required to land a once-every-few years prized free agent...that's bad. That is exactly why judging these acquisitions now is pointless, especially that they won't matter with the big picture / trajectory of the club. #2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Perfect Vision said: IMO the two most likely scenarios where Machado doesn't sign with the Sox are in the event that he wants to play for the Yankees so badly that he is willing to sign there for materially less money, or JR has put a hard cap on the amount of money he's authorized Hahn to offer and the Phillies beat it. Neither of those is the fault of Hahn or KW. Putting the money aspect aside, I think Hahn and KW have done everything they possibly could to bring Machado here, from meeting with him and taking him around Chicago, to putting video presentations together, to bringing in Alonso and Jay (and possibly Castillo before). I applaud those efforts whatever happens. I think they deserve our appreciation when this is all over and I hope the fans don't give them a hard time if either of the above-referenced scenarios come to pass. The financial flexibility moving forward was NOT an accident by ownership and the front office. This moment was planned for a long time ago, now it is just time for them to ink their damn guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 These are two great opportunities but if they lose out this year, then hopefully next year they can get a few sharks instead of a whale. If we don't get either Machado or Harper, maybe Eloy turns out to be a whale and Hahn spends the money next year filling holes. But fire Kenny now and if the roster is no better after 2019, fire Hahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, Gr8Scott said: I think it is more of the public view of seeing the moves that were made to get him if they failed. I do think Jay and Alonso can be productive for the Sox. Just my opinion that Rick and Kenny would kinda look like complete clowns for those moves if they didn't get Manny. If that makes any sense. I don't think they look like clowns. They are trying. One can't predict all the moves the free agent is going to make or how they think. If it doesn't work we move on with the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, steveno89 said: I agree with all of this^ KW and Hahn would face an angry mob all season if they come up short on both players. They have put all of their chips in on nabbing a whale, and not delivering would crush a suffering fanbase. We do not need to be competitive in 2019, or even 2020 for that matter, but there better damn be significant hope for the future coming from outside the organization. I don't think they would. I think that people would just no longer care. I think that would be the thing that makes a lot of people check out and I'm not sure what it would take to get them to come back. They'd still sell some tickets, I still go to a couple of local baseball games a couple times a year, but I don't go because I hugely care about rooting and that's where the White Sox would fall to with me and a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, bmags said: Everything is lining up for this deal to actually be tolerable, not even an overpay. If the sox don't land either one, I do not think they were serious, and if they were serious then they were also naive, and if they were not naive, then they were arrogant. Sometimes I think this front office thinks they are a lot more clever and successful than they are. There are no runners up for free agents. And because this needs to be said, I do think sox are going to sign him, that it is a monumental achievement to sign and will be a true sign of the changing, positive capabilities when it happens. But, there is no try here. If they fail it is a failure and if they succeed it's a success. This market did not get out of control, they said they were going to operate differently, then do it. But if they thought being cute and creative signing friends was a substitute for providing the cash required to land a once-every-few years prized free agent...that's bad. This post does not suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Saufley said: I don't think they look like clowns. They are trying. One can't predict all the moves the free agent is going to make or how they think. If it doesn't work we move on with the rebuild. They absolutely would look like clowns if they brought in his buddies and he went elsewhere. It’s real simple, you don’t make the moves unless you know you can win a bidding war. No more of this “they will fall in love with the culture and give a discount” nonsense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Saufley said: I don't think they look like clowns. They are trying. One can't predict all the moves the free agent is going to make or how they think. If it doesn't work we move on with the rebuild. I will be honest, the one who looks the worst so far is the Yankees if he doesn't sign there. When you have a guy like this who WANTS to sign with you, there should be no way you lose that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Alanso and Jay are decent players that will help the Sox but there are plenty of other guys out there that could do the same thing. To be reminded daily of this failure if they do not sign either will be a huge blow to me as a fan. That is my only hope in thinking that if the Yankees wanted him he'd be there and the Sox are certain they will go as far as they need to to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: I will be honest, the one who looks the worst so far is the Yankees if he doesn't sign there. When you have a guy like this who WANTS to sign with you, there should be no way you lose that. I disagree. We literally watched that exact scenario play out this offseason already with the best pitcher on the Market, Corbin, and the Yankees said thanks but no thanks. Hell, out of that the team that came out looking the worst in my eyes was the team that talked the biggest game and then wilted - the Phillies, who publicly they would not be out-bid for him and then were outbid. They looked like clowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: They absolutely would look like clowns if they brought in his buddies and he went elsewhere. It’s real simple, you don’t make the moves unless you know you can win a bidding war. No more of this “they will fall in love with the culture and give a discount” nonsense. Not going to look like clowns to me and that is all I'm going to care about. If they do to you that's your business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: I disagree. We literally watched that exact scenario play out this offseason already with the best pitcher on the Market, Corbin, and the Yankees said thanks but no thanks. Hell, out of that the team that came out looking the worst in my eyes was the team that talked the biggest game and then wilted - the Phillies, who publicly they would not be out-bid for him and then were outbid. They looked like clowns. If you are given the upper hand and lose, even with the natural advantages that the Yankees have, that is really bad. If they don't make the playoffs next year, there will be hell to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: Alanso and Jay are decent players that will help the Sox but there are plenty of other guys out there that could do the same thing. To be reminded daily of this failure if they do not sign either will be a huge blow to me as a fan. That is my only hope in thinking that if the Yankees wanted him he'd be there and the Sox are certain they will go as far as they need to to get him. Jay is fine. Alonso would be pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 You'd think Machado signed with the Yankees and the White Sox have been moved to Beijing by reading the last few pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 If Mr. MBA from Harvard and UM undergrad can't find a way to get this deal done he should fire himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Nice to see so many fans engaged even for tweets and gossip. Give this a week or two and hope we get it resolved. The main delay for both Big Tunas has to be waiting for their market to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If you are given the upper hand and lose, even with the natural advantages that the Yankees have, that is really bad. If they don't make the playoffs next year, there will be hell to pay. If the Yankees decide they have a low limit for him - they have an infield already assembled, they have a playoff team from last year, they've added pitching to it already, they have a natural candidate or two for shortstop (they could still cheaply add a 2b and move Torres over), I read that as "a reasonable business decision". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't think they would. I think that people would just no longer care. I think that would be the thing that makes a lot of people check out and I'm not sure what it would take to get them to come back. They'd still sell some tickets, I still go to a couple of local baseball games a couple times a year, but I don't go because I hugely care about rooting and that's where the White Sox would fall to with me and a lot of people. C'mon. This may apply to you, but it's silly to think this applied to a big portion of the fanbase. Do you think the people in the stands last year were there because of hope that we'd land Machado or Harper? No. Sox fans have dealt with a lot of crap. We've watched almost all of the mild/fair-weather portion of our fanbase defect to the Cubs. We saw the players strike in a year the Sox should have won a World Series. We sat through countless years where there was no hope at all, like 2013, then watched the other assholes win in 2016. There will be a lot less interest obviously because the team would be worse in 2019 than with one of those guys, but the majority of the admittedly small mass of people who care are just going to be extremely angry. And if somehow the Sox start winning division titles regularly, the ones who did tap out will return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I don't know how much I believe Heyman's tweet about Machado still waiting on $300M. Most of what we've heard recently is that the offers are less than 10 years and somewhere in the $200M to $250M range. Of course it could all be bullshit. Who knows. I just hope this is over soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, hogan873 said: I don't know how much I believe Heyman's tweet about Machado still waiting on $300M. Most of what we've heard recently is that the offers are less than 10 years and somewhere in the $200M to $250M range. Of course it could all be bullshit. Who knows. I just hope this is over soon. That doesn't mean he still doesn't want the $300m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: If Mr. MBA from Harvard and UM undergrad can't find a way to get this deal done he should fire himself. If Machado means so much to this franchise going forward I say offer him the $300 mil and say take it or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Saufley said: If Machado means so much to this franchise going forward I say offer him the $300 mil and say take it or leave it. 10 years, $300m. That's less AAV than the speculated $35 we saw, just a couple more years added. And it's not like those extra years are his upper 30s/40 years old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: 10 years, $300m. That's less AAV than the speculated $35 we saw, just a couple more years added. And it's not like those extra years are his upper 30s/40 years old. If we all feel comfortable with the 8/270 or 280 we think it takes...10/300 is a bargain. Not sure if JR will see it that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Saufley said: If Machado means so much to this franchise going forward I say offer him the $300 mil and say take it or leave it. This is a once a decade chance to add about 40 projected wins to the franchise over the next 7-10 years. They need to get it the fuck done. This rebuild needs a catalyst.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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