Perfect Vision Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The odds of an ARod like deal with stupid money and Boras conceding this early in the process are pretty low. That said, there’s a ton of pressure on the Phillies while they have Harper’s full attention to do exactly that. They probably can’t afford to wait two more years on Trout...and still be stuck treading water in the middle of a contention window as a low 80’s win team. Are we that early in the process though? I think Boras probably has a pretty good idea of the market at this point (or lack thereof), and he and Harper may have a number in their minds that they would agree to tomorrow. It could be as low as $330 mil at this point to ensure Harper the record. Middleton might be willing to do that now. As you say, there's a lot of pressure on the Phillies to make a splash and tomorrow seems like the ideal opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Roughneck said: But you're essentially saying "You aren't really worth this, but we'll give it to you today only." So you risk pissing Manny off. Even aside from a mystery team. Manny could sign a one-year deal for $40 mil and hit the market again next year. Or maybe Harper doesn't sign until February, and next week the Phillies sign Manny for less than our temporary offer because he doesn't want to deal with us anymore. Here's how the bluff works: Manny still signs and plays somewhere in 2019, over $30 mil a year, for either a 1 year deal or longterm. Maybe he even goes one year with the Cubs just to stick it to the Sox. The White Sox miss out on a generational talent, have no franchise player and set their rebuild back a long way, the fanbase burns the park to the ground, they are laughed at nationally, and future agents don't want to deal with them after word gets out of how they dealt with Manny. It doesn't seem worth it to act a tough guy and try to intimidate them into signing today. Not to mention that next year the Yankees will be MUCH more likely to jump back into it with Machado if they can’t overtake the Red Sox in 2019. Of course, NY could also see the wisdom in going after Bogaerts, killing two birds with one proverbial stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Alot of members browsing this thread. I could see why. This thread is riveting right now... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Not to mention that next year the Yankees will be MUCH more likely to jump back into it with Machado if they can’t overtake the Red Sox in 2019. Of course, NY could also see the wisdom in going after Bogaerts, killing two birds with one proverbial stone. If the Yankees are behind the Red Sox next year my guess is their #1 target is one Christopher Sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Roughneck said: Manny could sign a one-year deal for $40 mil and hit the market again next year. Or maybe Harper doesn't sign until February, and next week the Phillies sign Manny for less than our temporary offer because he doesn't want to deal with us anymore. Manny could rupture his Achilles tomorrow also and miss out on a huge opportunity to be set for life (he isn't doing a 1 year deal). Hopefully Philly just gets enamored with Bryce after Boras works his magic and RH stays his course and we get a 8/270 contract out of all this. This is all of us just throwing things at the wall because we are sick of waiting for more news. At least the work day is almost over....cheers. Edited January 11, 2019 by EloyJenkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: If the Yankees are behind the Red Sox next year my guess is their #1 target is one Christopher Sale. I fully believe what the yankees want to keep financial flexibility for is to get pitching when they need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, bmags said: I fully believe what the yankees want to keep financial flexibility for is to get pitching when they need it. If you're in the market for pitching and you have a bunch of young hitters, next offseason is the time when you want a slot open, and right now they'll have 2 open and money to burn. Sale, Bumgarner, Verlander all on the market. If you've acquired a ton of young pitching (perhaps in trades) and need a position player...you gotta strike now, and that's the Phillies and White Sox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: Are we that early in the process though? I think Boras probably has a pretty good idea of the market at this point (or lack thereof), and he and Harper may have a number in their minds that they would agree to tomorrow. It could be as low as $330 mil at this point to ensure Harper the record. Middleton might be willing to do that now. As you say, there's a lot of pressure on the Phillies to make a splash and tomorrow seems like the ideal opportunity. But when has Boras ever allowed that to happen in the past...? His negotiations always drag on and on, not without some backside risk to his clients when he plays chicken and is left with no viable suitors. In the end, he knows that won’t happen here, because the White Sox are also willing to give him a huge deal...but their degree of urgency isnt going to change between today and March 1st. Not to mention another 5-7 teams rethinking their competitive situations, payroll, tax consequences, etc. Lets say the Brewers can somehow pull off a deal for Bumgarner and Panik. Then the Cubs and Cards really will be pressured to add... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: If you're in the market for pitching and you have a bunch of young hitters, next offseason is the time when you want a slot open, and right now they'll have 2 open and money to burn. Sale, Bumgarner, Verlander all on the market. If you've acquired a ton of young pitching (perhaps in trades) and need a position player...you gotta strike now, and that's the Phillies and White Sox. And not even just next years class, but at deadline we've seen too "too expensive to trade" pitchers go last few years. Having room to soak them up will reduce cost of prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: But when has Boras ever allowed that to happen in the past...? His negotiations always drag on and on, not without some backside risk to his clients when he plays chicken and is left with no viable suitors. In the end, he knows that won’t happen here, because the White Sox are also willing to give him a huge deal...but their degree of urgency isnt going to change between today and March 1st. Not to mention another 5-7 teams rethinking their competitive situations, payroll, tax consequences, etc. Lets say the Brewers can somehow pull off a deal for Bumgarner and Panik. Then the Cubs and Cards really will be pressured to add... They might feel more pressure to make a move but that's not a sudden urge to spend $300 million and to lock themselves into the luxury tax for the next several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: If you're in the market for pitching and you have a bunch of young hitters, next offseason is the time when you want a slot open, and right now they'll have 2 open and money to burn. Sale, Bumgarner, Verlander all on the market. If you've acquired a ton of young pitching (perhaps in trades) and need a position player...you gotta strike now, and that's the Phillies and White Sox. And Cole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Have a feeling we don't have Machado resolution until mid next week jerry pushed hard for Baines to get in the Hall then to sign Machado or Harper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said: If Bryce signs with the Phillies tomorrow it's gonna take forever for machado to sign Isn't it NotHahn meeting with someone inside the Sox house tomorrow? Wonder if he has anything to say today? You there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuagman Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Chat's Lit #MannyWatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said: jerry pushed hard for Baines to get in the Hall then to sign Machado or Harper Is this a riddle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Dick Allen said: It's beginning to look a lot like Harper must learn to like Philadelphia, which is where Nightengale pegged him all along. That leaves the White Sox with Machado. Just sign already and end this madness. But wasn't Manny going to Yankees per Dan Clark, DA? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxman72 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 51 minutes ago, Roughneck said: But then you're being unnecessarily combative and risking pissing them off. They'd have no choice but to accept the Sox current offer? Then there is no risk to them. They could go back to the Sox in a week and take it if they aren't able to rope other teams in. Or maybe you piss him off to the point where he wants to take a short-term deal elsewhere just because he doesn't want to play for the Sox. No use calling it "take it or leave it" when you're acknowledging that's not the case and you'll still negotiate with him later if he wants. I don't believe it is combative, just part of the game. You are negotiating for today, in good faith. You never know what tomorrow brings and you can say "take it or leave it" today. However, you have to not be stubborn enough to hold your ground the next day, if circumstances change. Today the offer is Y. Things could change tomorrow and the offer can go up to Z or down to X. It could stay right at Y. You are playing poker and we will see who blinks. It's like saying "Final Offer" and then an hour later saying "Wait, here is more". I negotiate for a living and I love hearing "final offer" or "Take it or leave it" from the other side and then getting more. Part of the game. Sometimes you don't get more. You have to know who you are dealing with and their history. If the Sox set a soft dealine, that isn't end all be all. If you are negotiating on emotions, you are in the wrong business. You have to do what is in the best interest for your side. The Harper meeting is VERY important tomorrow, for multiple reasons. For one, Phillies could get the vibe that Harper doesn't want to play in Philly. If that is the teams take away from the meeting, they could throw more money at Manny. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said: But wasn't Manny going to Yankees per Dan Clark, DA? Clark will get his own show on the YES Network if they figure out a way to get pitching for Andujar and sign Machado in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpet1010 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I see everyone laying a lot of groundwork for Manny to come here, relying heavily on Harper signing with Philly. Remember, lots of conjecture and rumors that Bryce hates Philly, or strongly dislikes. Regardless if that's true, we are talking as if we can ONLY get one of the 2 big FA's. Reality is we can get both, and the organization may still be very well in on harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: But wasn't Manny going to Yankees per Dan Clark, DA? You got me, great job. I already said about 1000 times I fell for so,e BS. But have fun stalking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Soxman72 said: I don't believe it is combative, just part of the game. You are negotiating for today, in good faith. You never know what tomorrow brings and you can say "take it or leave it" today. However, you have to not be stubborn enough to hold your ground the next day, if circumstances change. Today the offer is Y. Things could change tomorrow and the offer can go up to Z or down to X. It could stay right at Y. You are playing poker and we will see who blinks. It's like saying "Final Offer" and then an hour later saying "Wait, here is more". I negotiate for a living and I love hearing "final offer" or "Take it or leave it" from the other side and then getting more. Part of the game. Sometimes you don't get more. You have to know who you are dealing with and their history. If the Sox set a soft dealine, that isn't end all be all. If you are negotiating on emotions, you are in the wrong business. You have to do what is in the best interest for your side. The Harper meeting is VERY important tomorrow, for multiple reasons. For one, Phillies could get the vibe that Harper doesn't want to play in Philly. If that is the teams take away from the meeting, they could throw more money at Manny. Nice first post. No quotes from The Art of the Deal. The irony of all this would be Harper ending up with the White Sox as his ultimate best option...if the Phillies panic and feel forced to blow away the Machado camp. Then we end up with this odd pairing of Bryce and Machado’s Mates. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Is this a riddle? Wait, Caulfield is roasting someone? We really have reached the bottom. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Love the thread title ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 To clear up and confusion Kevin Millar did say today on intentional talk he thinks Harper to Phillies and Machado to the Whitesox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Wait, Caulfield is roasting someone? We really have reached the bottom. That or we've all been stuck in this thread for so long we're beginning to evolve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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