SoxAce Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 39 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Giolito hasn't been trending upward for nearly 4 years now. His fastball was his best pitch and he's lost it. His curve was definitely his best pitch when he was an uber prospect. That thing was nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: His brother in law can facetime with him whenever he wants. Machado isn't going to start to ignore his facetime requests if he starts to lean toward Philly or SD. I never said the Sox are in the lead. I just think if the Sox had no shot at him, Yonder wouldn't be publicizing that. I also don't think he would specifically FaceTime Manny and have two other teammates tell him they wanted him to sign if he knew they had no shot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoxAce said: His curve was definitely his best pitch when he was an uber prospect. That thing was nasty. The spin rate on his curve has been mediocre all 3 years there's pitchFX data for it. It's possible he was just a major whiff by the scouting community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoxAce said: His curve was definitely his best pitch when he was an uber prospect. That thing was nasty. No. His fastball was an 80 at one point - the highest grade of any pitch. He was said to have the best fastball in the minors. Him losing his curveball definitely hurt when paired with the fastball drop off but his fastball was his bread and butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 28 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: He's face timing his brother in law. No matter the team he signs with, he wouldn't begin to hate his brother in law over it. I wouldn't think who he face times makes any difference. Let's be real. He can face time his brother outside of sox fest. Also, his brother in law wouldn't pull that move if it wasnt good vibes. Manny could have easily said he didn't feel comfortable face timing during Sox Fest because of his privacy and not wanting the media to make assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Gomez has been retweeting quite a few things relating to Padres and Manny. Hopefully this is all just a leak to get the Sox to up their offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: No. His fastball was an 80 at one point - the highest grade of any pitch. He was said to have the best fastball in the minors. Him losing his curveball definitely hurt when paired with the fastball drop off but his fastball was his bread and butter. I'm betting in today's scouting age, his fastball would have been nowhere near an 80 with the bigger emphasis on spin rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: His max last year was 96.7 with an average fastball at 92.6. That is standard difference between max and average. Lucas does not throw 97 mph anymore consistently - it's not his mechanics. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that continued refinement could help the velocity return. I don't profess to be an expert by any means,but I do know a lot about pitching, and I know about as much as you can without being a pitcher yourself. It 100% is his mechanics, because you don't go from throwing 88-90 to 94-96 without it being so. I'm not discounting further velocity increases from him. I wish I could go and show you a few starts of his from April and his two best of the year vs Tampa and Boston. There is a significant difference in his delivery. It is all about him staying closed vs flying open and being wild. If you go and break down the video you'd see the differences. He also changed his arm slot from 3/4 to over the top through the course of the season. Cooper and Giolito are probably going over video of his starts in the low minors and trying to find what he was doing differently then vs now. Edited January 27, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: The spin rate on his curve has been mediocre all 3 years there's pitchFX data for it. It's possible he was just a major whiff by the scouting community. No, his advanced data was very promising at one point. Giolito just lost his main pitch and it hurt everything else. https://www.mlb.com/news/nats-lucas-giolito-debuts-with-elite-fastball/c-186615010 Nothing fake about that guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that continued refinement could help the velocity return. I don't profess to be an expert by any means,but I do know a lot about pitching, and I know about as much as you can without being a pitcher yourself. It 100% is his mechanics, because you don't go from throwing 88-90 to 94-96 without it being so. I'm not discounting further velocity increases from him. I wish I could go and show you a few starts of his from April and his two best of the year vs Tampa and Boston. There is a significant difference in his delivery. It is all about him staying closed vs flying open and being wild. If you go and break down the video you'd see the differences. He also changed his arm slot from 3/4 to over the top through the course of the season. Velocity peaks in your early twenties - many prospects will never throw as hard as they do when they are 18-20. Its not mechanical, its aging and wear and tear on the arm. There are exceptions but giolito was at the point where diminishing velocity was certainly possible - especially if he was a young overthrower which many prospects are now. It is incredibly unlikely giolito ever averages even 94 mph on his fastball ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: No, his advanced data was very promising at one point. Giolito just lost his main pitch and it hurt everything else. https://www.mlb.com/news/nats-lucas-giolito-debuts-with-elite-fastball/c-186615010 Nothing fake about that guy. That’s a poor spin rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 The white sox have allowed giolito to go back to his old comfortable delivery - last spring - and there were tons of positive feedback and results but once the season started he reverted. Giolito strikes me as being a mental midget sadly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Too bad Giolito couldn’t develop a good sinker. Tall guy going over the top and it would make his fastball look that much better to the hitter. He could be our Garland 2.0. Wouldn’t even need that great curve to come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Blackout Friday said: That’s a poor spin rate. Yes but his extension makes up for the spin rate. Spin rate merely decreases the drop of the baseball making it appear as if the ball rises or has no downward action - increasing the perceived velocity. His extension cancelled out that deficiency and still made his fastball appear harder than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Velocity peaks in your early twenties - many prospects will never throw as hard as they do when they are 18-20. Its not mechanical, its aging and wear and tear on the arm. There are exceptions but giolito was at the point where diminishing velocity was certainly possible - especially if he was a young overthrower which many prospects are now. It is incredibly unlikely giolito ever averages even 94 mph on his fastball ever again. Again, based on what I saw last season I completely disagree. It has been well noted that he's had mechanical issues before he was traded to the Sox. He may never figure it out but I still think there is a decent chance he can fulfill his TOR potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, fathom said: I'm betting in today's scouting age, his fastball would have been nowhere near an 80 with the bigger emphasis on spin rate. Yep. His fastball was straight even then. His curve on the other hand was just awesome. Had the pleasure of watching him a couple of times in the minors back then (although maybe I should stop comparing guys to Kopech's elite spin rate). Just baffling he lost that too. Edited January 27, 2019 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, shipps said: Too bad Giolito couldn’t develop a good sinker. Tall guy going over the top and it would make his fastball look that much better to the hitter. He could be our Garland 2.0. Wouldn’t even need that great curve to come around. He did have a good sinker last August. When he's on, he's a ground ball machine and induces tons of weak contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes but his extension makes up for the spin rate. Spin rate merely decreases the drop of the baseball making it appear as if the ball rises or has no downward action - increasing the perceived velocity. His extension cancelled out that deficiency and still made his fastball appear harder than it was. The other poster referenced spin rate before our post. I was going back to that. I know how spin rate and extension work. It isn’t rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Yep. His fastball was straight even then. His curve on the other hand was just awesome. Had the pleasure of watching him a couple of times in the minors back then. Just baffling he lost that too. Again I disagree. The talent is still there, it is a matter of repeating his delivery and staying closed. If it is possible to find it, go back and watch his starts vs Boston and Tampa. He was showing the stuff that made him a top prospect in those games. The lower velo had to do with not having his delivery in sync and flying open. I will beat this dead horse until it's skin and bones because I can't believe how wrong everyone is on him. Edited January 27, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Repeating his delivery is more an issue for his command, but it isn’t going to bring back an elite fastball. I think he can be a useful major league pitcher, but people need to forget his old prospect status. He isn’t that guy anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 This guy was one of the first to mention the Padres were in on Manny. He sure seems confident they're going to get him...and if it's true that 8/250 would seal the deal, the Sox really just need to move to Portland during the night. https://twitter.com/UpstateNYY_315 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, shipps said: Too bad Giolito couldn’t develop a good sinker. Tall guy going over the top and it would make his fastball look that much better to the hitter. He could be our Garland 2.0. Wouldn’t even need that great curve to come around. Hmmm, do we have a pitching coach who might be able to help him develop a good sinker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox1917 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Velocity peaks in your early twenties - many prospects will never throw as hard as they do when they are 18-20. Its not mechanical, its aging and wear and tear on the arm. There are exceptions but giolito was at the point where diminishing velocity was certainly possible - especially if he was a young overthrower which many prospects are now. It is incredibly unlikely giolito ever averages even 94 mph on his fastball ever again. I'd say velocity peaks closer to 23-25. Also, he was averaging 94 on his fastball in July and August last year before it dipped to an average of 93 in September. It was only April - June that he was averaging 91-92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Saufley said: Hmmm, do we have a pitching coach who might be able to help him develop a good sinker? Cooper isn't a fan of all the new-aged stuff...he just wants to see his starters go 6 innings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, fathom said: This guy was one of the first to mention the Padres were in on Manny. He sure seems confident they're going to get him...and if it's true that 8/250 would seal the deal, the Sox really just need to move to Portland during the night. https://twitter.com/UpstateNYY_315 South Bend and then Hawk would be close enough to broadcast the games. Edited January 27, 2019 by Saufley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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