ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Find me one 1B/DH who hit .230 and struck out 30% of the time in the minors who became a better than average MLB player Sure, if you just ignore the fact that he plays catcher, and has crazy good OBP skills, and basically strip away all of his positive, sure. Just like Mike Trout doesn't have a great arm, and that's why he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesoxa6 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Sure, if you just ignore the fact that he plays catcher, and has crazy good OBP skills, and basically strip away all of his positive, sure. Just like Mike Trout doesn't have a great arm, and that's why he sucks. Every major publication has basically said he has no chance of becoming a major league catcher, which takes away any hint of value the guy had. Why can't people just admit that he looks like another draft failure from this front office? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, Whitesoxa6 said: Nobody who hits .230 in the minors and strikes out at a 30% clip is going to come close to that number in the majors. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but nobody has yet to name a good major league 1b/Dh that had close to the pathetic career stats that Collins has in the minors What did you think of AJ Pierzynski and his stature as a major league hitter? Was he also garbage? Statistically, Collins is better offensively based solely on MiLB numbers. AJP had 2500 minor league plate appearances before he was called up, with a .739 OPS. Collins has had roughly HALF the PAs (in a park that is known to suppress power) and has posted a .805 OPS. Better write him off though, because ya know... batting average is the only offensive statistic that matters. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Sure, if you just ignore the fact that he plays catcher, and has crazy good OBP skills, and basically strip away all of his positive, sure. Just like Mike Trout doesn't have a great arm, and that's why he sucks. I would be satisfied if he turns into a Brian downing type player as a catcher with the high OBP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, Whitesoxa6 said: Every major publication has basically said he has no chance of becoming a major league catcher, which takes away any hint of value the guy had. Why can't people just admit that he looks like another draft failure from this front office? Great, but for now he plays catcher. And that's where he currently has prospect value. If he was always a 1B prospect he would have never cracked a top 100. But he does and still plays catcher, and a catcher with his bat could be very valuable. Scouts also said Arenado was a butcher at 3B. Care to let us know why he hasn't been moved to 1B yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Every major publication has basically said he has no chance of becoming a major league catcher, which takes away any hint of value the guy had. Why can't people just admit that he looks like another draft failure from this front office? Because he hasn't failed yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesoxa6 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: What did you think of AJ Pierzynski and his stature as a major league hitter? Was he also garbage? Statistically, Collins is better offensively based solely on MiLB numbers. AJP had 2500 minor league plate appearances before he was called up, with a .739 OPS. Collins has had roughly HALF the PAs (in a park that is known to suppress power) and has posted a .805 OPS. Better write him off though, because ya know... batting average is the only offensive statistic that matters. AJ Pierzynski was a catcher. The only reason this guy is still catching in the minors is to try to hide the fact that he is another failed pick. They know he has no value anywhere else on the diamond other than catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Why can't people just admit that he looks like another draft failure from this front office? Because he doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Find me one 1B/DH who hit .230 and struck out 30% of the time in the minors who became a better than average MLB player Why do you think you know prospects better than the professionals, especially when all you are talking about is batting average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 56 minutes ago, Goober said: Lololol Keith law ranked Sox as 13th best farm system Wow. I could see him having them outside the top 5 but near middle of the pack? Sure, many of the prospects in the system may have some warts but are there really 12 others that have better prospects or fewer warts?!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Great, but for now he plays catcher. And that's where he currently has prospect value. If he was always a 1B prospect he would have never cracked a top 100. But he does and still plays catcher, and a catcher with his bat could be very valuable. Scouts also said Arenado was a butcher at 3B. Care to let us know why he hasn't been moved to 1B yet? Who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't think that Moncada can improve his game much without improving the strikeout part. I think the power will increase and the strikeouts will improve a little. I just don't see a drastic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Why do you think you know prospects better than the professionals, especially when all you are talking about is batting average? When Collins is no longer in the MLB pipeline top 10 catchers, I don't think you can call on "the professionals" to give us hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Nobody who hits .230 in the minors and strikes out at a 30% clip is going to come close to that number in the majors. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but nobody has yet to name a good major league 1b/Dh that had close to the pathetic career stats that Collins has in the minors Matt Olsen @ AA: .249/.388/.438/.826, 132 wRC+, 17.9% BB rate, 23.8% K rate Collins @ AA: .235/.385/.409/.794, 131 wRC+, 19.4% BB rate, 29.3% K rate Given that Zack also has to focus much of his attention on catching and plays in a huge pitchers park, I wouldn’t consider their stats that much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: AJ Pierzynski was a catcher. The only reason this guy is still catching in the minors is to try to hide the fact that he is another failed pick. They know he has no value anywhere else on the diamond other than catcher You know, there are posters I disagree with on this board. But your posts hurt my eyes. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Nobody who hits .230 in the minors and strikes out at a 30% clip is going to come close to that number in the majors. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but nobody has yet to name a good major league 1b/Dh that had close to the pathetic career stats that Collins has in the minors I am guessing by the lack of substance in your posts, you didn't actually do any research here and are just presenting conjecture as fact. Then to cover that up you are trying to get everyone else to do the work you should have done before just making stuff up. Once someone finds something to contradict you, then you move the goalposts to somewhere else. I mean there might be some slack to cut if you had a history of in depth posting and great reasoning combined with excellent research and sound logic, but we have seen the exact opposite of that in your short time here. As you said, I would love to be proven wrong and all, but I don't see it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Great, but for now he plays catcher. And that's where he currently has prospect value. If he was always a 1B prospect he would have never cracked a top 100. But he does and still plays catcher, and a catcher with his bat could be very valuable. Scouts also said Arenado was a butcher at 3B. Care to let us know why he hasn't been moved to 1B yet? Fangraphs had Collins as the 67th overall prospect in their 2018 update as a 1B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Every major publication has basically said he has no chance of becoming a major league catcher, which takes away any hint of value the guy had. Why can't people just admit that he looks like another draft failure from this front office? Why can't you admit you just pulled arbitrary standards out of thin air and made up them as a fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesoxa6 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, southsider2k5 said: Why can't you admit you just pulled arbitrary standards out of thin air and made up them as a fact? Well in a few years when collins is proven to be a useless major league baseball player, we could all look back on my posts and say "Well, I guess he was right" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooseman Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Well in a few years when collins is proven to be a useless major league baseball player, we could all look back on my posts and say "Well, I guess he was right" I'll be honest i'll have no recollection of ya... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Well in a few years when collins is proven to be a useless major league baseball player, we could all look back on my posts and say "Well, I guess he was right" So, no? No proof of anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Whitesoxa6 said: Well in a few years when collins is proven to be a useless major league baseball player, we could all look back on my posts and say "Well, I guess he was right" You might end up being right, but it’s way too early to come that to determination. And even if he ends up a 1B/DH, he hasn’t had a chance to focus solely on hitting. The dude has one of the best batter’s eyes in all of the minors and 70 grade raw power, you gave a guy like him a long leash to make the necessary adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesoxa6 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: So, no? No proof of anything? I'm sure there's a stat that says a very high % of players that hit less than .230 in the minors and provide no defensive value, don't become major league regulars. Anyone who has confidence in Collins’ future has to be a homer. If he was in a different system, nobody on here would see any upside in this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 43 minutes ago, aeichhor said: He already settled at 26 million a couple days ago I know, that's what I'm saying. Arenado settling at $26M that pretty much sets the bar for Machado's AAV. Hopefully it causes some movement in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooseman Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Whitesoxa6 said: I'm sure there's a stat that says a very high % of players that hit less than .230 in the minors and provide no defensive value, don't become major league regulars. Anyone who has confidence in Collins’ future has to be a homer. If he was in a different system, nobody on here would see any upside in this guy Ok well find it then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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