mqr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: No we will not. The big difference between now and then is that the guys we're bringing in who are pre-arb are Kopech, Cease, Eloy, Madrigal, Vaughn, Collins, Robert, and the other outfielders. These guys are big time talents. They SHOULD be very different from bringing along guys like an early career Yolmer Sanchez, a broken down John Danks, A Jimmy Rollins - to fill in roles. If they systematically bust and Kopech comes out throwing like Mat Latos, then we're in rotten shape and that's a bad thing. These guys should not be scrubs. That's the point. If they are, then we have more evidence about Rick Hahn being awful. Bringing in big time talents should be very different. Who tf is Vaughn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, mqr said: Who tf is Vaughn The 1b that I'm already assuming we will draft this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I think one aspect that needs to be considered is Reinsdorf's age. He isn't young anymore. Obviously he doesn't have a history of maintaining a high payroll, but it's possible that could change heading forward. You'd have to think he'd want to see another championship before he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, mqr said: Who tf is Vaughn Andrew Vaughn, #3 prospect in this year's draft right now. 1B from Cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Wasn’t that before a ton national TV deal money came in? Plus our local TV deal should also increase to some extent just by getting rid of WGN and potentially even more (there unsubstantiated rumors it was doubling). Honesty, if our ownership truly puts everything back into the team, I think we could probably afford a ~$175M payroll with a modest bump in attendance. I think we could too but as I think about what's necessary to build the team out for fun I try to take a conservative number. I do think it again re enforces how valuable it would be to sign manny now. edit: to too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, almagest said: If the Sox believe they can be consistently competitive by signing Bryce and Manny I think they can do it, but they'd have to be at or above the luxury tax threshold. Which is $208 million (and up) starting in 2020. You'd be looking at ~33% of your payroll being occupied by Bryce and Manny (assuming each is at 35 mil/yr. That seems doable while maintaining a competitive team, I just don't know if its smart. The White Sox are not spending 208 million on payroll. The White Sox aren't paying luxury tax. I have no idea why people think this will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Well, I'm using a 30+ year sample of Reinsdorf owning the team as my budget. If you think the Chicago White Sox are going to start spending 200 million and competing with the Yankees and Dodgers for the top payroll in MLB then I'm afraid you are going to be one disappointed fan. They have operated in the top 5 when they have been successful, which is why I give them 50 extra million than they've ever spent before because they have been in that territory before... but 180 is being very generous. They certainly aren't threatening to outspend the big boys though. Maybe I misread, but I thought your numbers were adding up to $155. I doubt they are signing both, but if they really are trying to, I think that they have thought ahead about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The White Sox are not spending 208 million on payroll. The White Sox aren't paying luxury tax. I have no idea why people think this will change. Why can’t they spend $175M? And if they spend $175M, that would more or less leave $100M for the rest of the roster. Seems doable to me. Edited February 13, 2019 by Chicago White Sox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The White Sox are not spending 208 million on payroll. The White Sox aren't paying luxury tax. I have no idea why people think this will change. Didn't say I thought they would, just they would have to be at the luxury tax to be able to field a competitive roster with so much money tied up in two players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why can’t they spend $175M? And if they spend $175M, that would more or less leave $100M for the rest of the roster. Seems doable to me. Can and will are do different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 If the White Sox sign both Harper and Machada AND plan on having a mid tier payroll then that is dumb and bad. However unlikely you think the Sox signing both are it is even less likely that they would go be extremely cheap with the rest of the roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why can’t they spend $175M? And if they spend $175M, that would more less leave $100M for the rest of the roster. The number I put them at was 180 million - which is very generous for a team that has never broken 130. With Anderson, you'd have 3 players making 80 million; leaving 22 players to make up the remaining 100 million. Even with pre-arb players, that leaves very little room to invest in anything else significant - if they wanted to sign a good pitcher it would cost them 20+ million a year. Now we're at 70-75 million for 21 players. Hence the stars and scrubs comment. They could, but they won't. Edited February 13, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Can and will are do different things. When death’s at your doorstep, can & will oftentimes become the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: When death’s at your doorstep, can & will oftentimes become the same thing. Considering we are still waiting out Manny Machado to save some number of millions of dollars, I am going to say that is a fantasy right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The number I put them at was 180 million - which is very generous for a team that has never broken 130. With Anderson, you'd have 3 players making 85 million; leaving 22 players to make up the remaining 95 million. Even with pre-arb players, that leaves very little room to invest in anything else significant - if they wanted to sign a good pitcher it would cost them 20+ million a year. Now we're at 70-75 million for 21 players. Hence the stars and scrubs comment. What time period are you looking at? Realistically speaking, you give both of these guys opt-outs and at least one of them is gone by the time the young guys become overly expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, Soxnfins said: "Wetbutt23 (that or reddit), it took a lot of self-control to not say the other one," and "trolling through instagram to see if a certain thing means one thing" Oh, I thought it was when he said: “ ‘get ready’ is what I tell the players when they first come to spring training” and ”if some players come out to the field without their black and white mitts, I tell them ‘you guys aren’t even ready’ “ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I just don't see them signing both. One or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Considering we are still waiting out Manny Machado to save some number of millions of dollars, I am going to say that is a fantasy right now. So Reinsdorf should just give in when he has a position of leverage? I get it can be frustrating to watch this process go down (it drives me mad), but what the Sox are doing is without question the right approach as long as they’re willing to outbid any last minute entrants. That remains to be seen, but for now I’m giving Jerry the benefit of the doubt given all the things we’ve done in the past few years that have gone against his track record (rebuilding, trading with the Cubs, $50M LatAm signing, etc). Edited February 13, 2019 by Chicago White Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: I think one aspect that needs to be considered is Reinsdorf's age. He isn't young anymore. Obviously he doesn't have a history of maintaining a high payroll, but it's possible that could change heading forward. You'd have to think he'd want to see another championship before he goes. He is turning 83 in a few weeks. He may think Michael Jordon is playing left-field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, SCCWS said: He is turning 83 in a few weeks. He may think Michael Jordon is playing left-field. Who is Michael Jordon? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What time period are you looking at? Realistically speaking, you give both of these guys opt-outs and at least one of them is gone by the time the young guys become overly expensive. You are absolutely not PLANNING for a guy to opt out when budgeting these contracts when they are initially signed. You absolutely cannot bank on the departure of 35 million - that's just not how you manage a business budget. It is possible one leaves, but it's also possible one gets hurt badly, and the other struggles enough that he never opts out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxnfins Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, heirdog said: Oh, I thought it was when he said: “ ‘get ready’ is what I tell the players when they first come to spring training” and ”if some players come out to the field without their black and white mitts, I tell them ‘you guys aren’t even ready’ “ ^ I like your style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: So Reinsdorf should just give in when he has a position of leverage? I get it can be frustrating to watch this process go down (it drives me mad), but what the Sox are doing is without question the right approach as long as they’re willing to outbid any last minute entrants. That remains to be seen, but for now I’m giving Jerry the benefit of the doubt given all the things we’ve done in the past few years that have gone against his track record (rebuilding, trading with the Cubs, $50M LatAm signing, etc). You are arguing against yourself now. I think JR is going to operate the same way he has always operated. He isn't going to spend just to spend. He isn't going to suddenly go wild in free agency or payroll. He will probably allow more spending than he has in the past when the team allows for it, but I can say at a level of near certainty that he isn't going to go from pinching pennies for the top free agents on the market to blowing past the luxury cap numbers in the same breath. If JR was really going to go through some spending spree because he wants to win before he dies, and somehow stop the rationality that has been a trademark of his management of the White Sox, the most obvious place to start would be spending what it takes to get Manny Machado done. Instead he is playing it exactly as he has played it with every single free agent in the teams history, bar one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, southsider2k5 said: You are arguing against yourself now. I think JR is going to operate the same way he has always operated. He isn't going to spend just to spend. He isn't going to suddenly go wild in free agency or payroll. He will probably allow more spending than he has in the past when the team allows for it, but I can say at a level of near certainty that he isn't going to go from pinching pennies for the top free agents on the market to blowing past the luxury cap numbers in the same breath. If JR was really going to go through some spending spree because he wants to win before he dies, and somehow stop the rationality that has been a trademark of his management of the White Sox, the most obvious place to start would be spending what it takes to get Manny Machado done. Instead he is playing it exactly as he has played it with every single free agent in the teams history, bar one. Jerry has a weird reputation I think - mainly because of his push for the strike. For multiple years, Jerry spent the highest percentage of revenue on payroll in the entire league. The White Sox operated with top 5 payrolls despite being around 10-12th (estimates) in revenue. Jerry has areas in baseball in which he has been cheap and hurt the team - mainly on the drafting, scouting and development side of things - but he has also paid people market rates and typically outspent their revenue figures. It's hard to call a guy spending the highest percentage of revenue on payroll cheap, but I do understand why some say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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