Bananarchy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Special K said: So we’ve now traded away a hall of famer in his prime (Sale) for nothing of substance (nobody has produced thus far), and passed on signing another hall of famer in his prime at a very reasonable price. This is the stuff dynasties are made of. Honestly, if Reindsorf didn’t luck into Jordan and Pippen, he may be the worst owner in professional sports. See guys. This is what happens. You get these horrible takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lillian said: So, what do the Sox play for, this season? Is this year # 3 of "tank for the Draft"? If Hahn tries to fill a bunch of holes with guys who are not part of the long term plan, this fan base will be even more livid. Unless they just accept the losing, that reversal of intentions would seem almost inevitable. They are not going to compete without adding too many pieces, and none of them meet the criteria of being part of the long term rebuild. 100 losses or bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, AustinIllini said: It's a ton for one guy. It just is. He got what everyone said he was going to get but ONLY one team was willing to pay it. This wasn't some 10 team bidding war. Fine: Reinsdorf is cheap, just like every other team that didn't offer Machado It's honestly under fair value if you price WAR ~$9m and wouldn't cripple the franchise because they have few other commitments. This was their best opportunity to buy a superstar and they failed. They also brought in two guys who shouldn't be on this team and still failed. Now they look like idiots. I honestly don't know how you're able to spin this into a positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: It's a ton for one guy. It just is. He got what everyone said he was going to get but ONLY one team was willing to pay it. This wasn't some 10 team bidding war. Fine: Reinsdorf is cheap, just like every other team that didn't offer Machado No team had a cleaner payroll, and no team needed him more than the White Sox, yet the White Sox weren't willing to get it done -- despite the fact that there WASN'T some 10 team bidding war, which would drive the price up. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Page 847, shoutout to the NW burbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, AustinIllini said: So why weren't six teams trying to match the Padres with such a great deal? Sorry, I don't buy it. If Jerry is cheap for offering a guy $250 million and getting outbid by only one team, that's a soft market, not a cheap owner. The same way we lucked into Abreu, when none of those large market teams needed a 1B. We beat the Rockies, I guess. So yay to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 46 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: How White Sox would it be though to sign a 3B NEXT offseason and then continue to dick Moncada around the infield? Yep! Leave Moncada alone and let him play 2B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You can say this 1000 times but its not true. As I said, MAYBE, if you played somewhere for a while or something crazy like that, the agent may give you a chance to match and its understandable and acceptable practice - ie the nationals with Bryce (MAYBE). But the white Sox were undoubtedly in a blind final bid and went to bed thinking it was the best offer and woke up to a call from Lozano telling Hahn they took the Padres deal. I think this is true. Lozano took final bids, White Sox fell short. I don't necessarily fault them for that particular sequence of events, its just everything leading up to it. We should never have been in a situation where the Padres could jump in and make a fair offer and beat us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, almagest said: How is 10/300 insane? Yeah, this was probably the exact contract that was most speculated. It would have been that exact number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said: No team had a cleaner payroll, and no team needed him more than the White Sox, yet the White Sox weren't willing to get it done -- despite the fact that there WASN'T some 10 team bidding war, which would drive the price up. That was the case before we added $45 million of crap nobody will even remember 5 years from now...assuming the franchise is still in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You can say this 1000 times but its not true. As I said, MAYBE, if you played somewhere for a while or something crazy like that, the agent may give you a chance to match and its understandable and acceptable practice - ie the nationals with Bryce (MAYBE). But the white Sox were undoubtedly in a blind final bid and went to bed thinking it was the best offer and woke up to a call from Lozano telling Hahn they took the Padres deal. If they failed to communicate/build enough rapport over the last six months to make sure they got a chance to beat any offer, they completely failed at negotiating properly. If they GOT the chance to match it but didn't, they cheaped out and were never willing to win the bidding. This is a huge failure for them. There's no other way to spin it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: So why weren't six teams trying to match the Padres with such a great deal? Sorry, I don't buy it. If Jerry is cheap for offering a guy $250 million and getting outbid by only one team, that's a soft market, not a cheap owner. Because a number of other teams put themselves in positions where they couldn't bid. The Red Sox still have $30 million on their payroll this year for Rusney Castillo and Pablo Sandoval, a $300 million deal costs them an extra $20 million in luxury tax payments this year and costs them draft picks. The Yankees are right on the edge of where this contract could cost them draft picks, and they have a 3b option. The Dodgers have Justin Turner and Corey Seager. The market is still depressed as a whole. Literally everything worked out the way the White Sox would have wanted for them to get this done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusO1274 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I haven't had time to read all the posts but did the White Sox offer have any opt outs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: No team had a cleaner payroll, and no team needed him more than the White Sox, yet the White Sox weren't willing to get it done -- despite the fact that there WASN'T some 10 team bidding war, which would drive the price up. No use in using logic. He is in denial to cope, it is all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, almagest said: It's honestly under fair value if you price WAR ~$9m and wouldn't cripple the franchise because they have few other commitments. This was their best opportunity to buy a superstar and they failed. They also brought in two guys who shouldn't be on this team and still failed. Now they look like idiots. I honestly don't know how you're able to spin this into a positive. No one is using fangraphs WAR valuation. That is outdated with old albatross contracts inflating it. Fangraphs doesnt even agree that 1 WAR = 9 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: See guys. This is what happens. You get these horrible takes. Hahn and Kenny have signed $40+ million of mediocrity and whiffed on Machado. Is this an accurate take? Are you happy about the Sox offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You can say this 1000 times but its complete nonsense. As I said, MAYBE, if you played somewhere for a while or something crazy like that, the agent may give you a chance to match and its understandable and acceptable practice - ie the nationals with Bryce (MAYBE). But the white Sox were undoubtedly in a blind final bid and went to bed thinking it was the best offer and woke up to a call from Lozano telling Hahn they took the Padres deal. https://theathletic.com/827011/2019/02/19/with-machado-to-padres-phillies-say-they-wont-be-pressured-into-a-bryce-harper-deal-now-what/ Subscription only so here is the key part of my “nonsense” (see bolded): By that moment, the inner circle of Phillies decision-makers knew Manny Machado was headed elsewhere. They had known for quite some time. Dan Lozano was in Arizona on Monday night with Padres officials to finalize the richest free-agent contract in professional sports history. Throughout the negotiation process, two sources said, Phillies general manager Matt Klentak was adamant with Lozano: The Phillies would not go to $300 million for Machado. Lozano called again on Tuesday. The Phillies would not counter San Diego. “We had a pretty good idea of where this thing was going,” Klentak said. Hours after reports of Machado’s contract leaked, Klentak summoned reporters to a third-floor conference room at Spectrum Field and added a new phrase to the offseason lexicon that was — until Tuesday — defined by two words. “If the reports are true, then this contract will exceed our valuation,” Klentak said. “Sometimes you have to be willing to walk away.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I wonder if, when Reinsdorf was a kid , he was the guy making money from 3 card monte or the shell game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: Sox were a serious contender for the best free agent in baseball. They were second. They got outbid by a fairly insane offer. Sorry, I don't buy your bs on this. And what's the prize we get for coming in second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Well let's see... The other teams didn't have money because their payrolls at are 160 to 200 million or close. Other teams didnt need a 3B. Which reminds that the Sox could sign two big names and be tied up in knots for a decade. This is a minor league team in a major league market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You can say this 1000 times but its not true. As I said, MAYBE, if you played somewhere for a while or something crazy like that, the agent may give you a chance to match and its understandable and acceptable practice - ie the nationals with Bryce (MAYBE). But the white Sox were undoubtedly in a blind final bid and went to bed thinking it was the best offer and woke up to a call from Lozano telling Hahn they took the Padres deal. Come on man. KW said they weren't going to 300 million, so he knew the bid. No way an agent doesn't let the second team beat the offer to keep driving the price up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Like I said, get Harper and all will be forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, heirdog said: https://theathletic.com/827011/2019/02/19/with-machado-to-padres-phillies-say-they-wont-be-pressured-into-a-bryce-harper-deal-now-what/ Subscription only so here is the key part of my “nonsense” (see bolded): By that moment, the inner circle of Phillies decision-makers knew Manny Machado was headed elsewhere. They had known for quite some time. Dan Lozano was in Arizona on Monday night with Padres officials to finalize the richest free-agent contract in professional sports history. Throughout the negotiation process, two sources said, Phillies general manager Matt Klentak was adamant with Lozano: The Phillies would not go to $300 million for Machado. Lozano called again on Tuesday. The Phillies would not counter San Diego. “We had a pretty good idea of where this thing was going,” Klentak said. Hours after reports of Machado’s contract leaked, Klentak summoned reporters to a third-floor conference room at Spectrum Field and added a new phrase to the offseason lexicon that was — until Tuesday — defined by two words. “If the reports are true, then this contract will exceed our valuation,” Klentak said. “Sometimes you have to be willing to walk away.” If they're also not going to 300 for Machado we have a chance for Harper still. Get it done White Sox. Also sounds like the Sox knew and could match but assumed their offer was "better" somehow. They completely failed to understand what Machado wanted. What a disaster of a negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Sometimes those contracts start to look bad around year 7 and does a franchise really get their money's worth? It's not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Fan O'Faust said: And what's the prize we get for coming in second? Participation trophy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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