Machado signs with Padres 10/300

[he gone.]

Taking the thread in a different direction ... kinda... and probably been discussed somewhere in 600 pages.. but if you were Hahn and you signed Machado, what else would you do to complete your offseason. Even with Manny I still think we're probably 2 years from actually competing for a pennant. So therefore I'd be okay adding some players on short term deals while we figure out with more certainty how our prospects start panning out. There inevitably will be guys who look like studs in the minors and fizzle out in the majors or maybe that take a year or two to figure it out (Moncada & Giolito as examples -- likely these guys are going to need some time to work out their kinks)

So that being said.. I'd do the following moves:

Sign Adam Jones. He won't be a long term answer, but I'd give a 1year, $5mm deal, with a $2mm buyout and a mutual option for a second year at another $5mm. Low risk. He can play a league average RF. League average bat. A guy who has some left in the tank and the ultimate pro's pro. Having him in RF allows Engel to be your 4OF and late defensive replacement (at least once Eloy is up) Most of your season you'd have Eloy/Jay/Jones -- 4OF of Engel. (Pushes Delmonico to AAA - basically prove yourself and prove your opportunity. Pushes Palka to AAA likely as well, but maybe a bench spot as DH/1b/OF)

Sign Evan Gattis to a minor league pact. $1-2mm if he makes the team. ideally I want McCann gone. I'd rather have Gattis as my backup catcher who spells Castillo about 20-30 games and can also fill in at DH. Nothing great about him, but he's better than McCann in my mind and doesn't cost much.

Sign Peter Moylan. 1 year. $2mm. He has had a top 10 groundball rate over past few years combined. Maybe even a minors deal would work. Inevitably we're going to have issues with our SP where runners are on and we need a GB DP. I like him for this role.

Sign 2 SP. I don't care. I want two. Injuries happen and always will. I'd take one high risk, oft injured, or one guy who you basically would be happy to get 100IP out of. Bucholz.... Ervin Santana.. I like either of those guys. Then I'd want Gio Gonzalez or Keuchel. I like Keuchel GB rate again. Gio has had some very nice years and a few down years. Ultimately I'd take the lower risk, shorter, cheaper deal in Gio.  I'd go into the year with a 6 man rotation and see how it all shakes out over time.

Rodon, Gio Gonzalez, Lopez, Nova, Giolito, Santana. Somebody gets hurt or loses his spot to inefficiency by June 1.

Lineup: Jay, Machado, Abreu, Eloy, Jones, Moncada, Alonso, Castillo, Anderson

BP: Colome, Herrera, Jones, Moylan, Fry, etc.

Bench: Gattis (C/Dh) Yolmer (IF) Engel (OF) maybe Palka -- not sure if that fits.

 

People screwed by these signings: Palka, Delmonico, Engel, and other shitty OF on the edge. Also McCann.. I dislike him.

 

*** Note I'm not sure how signing 4-6 guys would mess up the 40 man and protecting certain guys.

[thedoctor]

i’m here for a source who declares himself “wack” if it reflects what i want. 

[iWiN4PreP]

13 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Taking the thread in a different direction ... kinda... and probably been discussed somewhere in 600 pages.. but if you were Hahn and you signed Machado, what else would you do to complete your offseason. Even with Manny I still think we're probably 2 years from actually competing for a pennant. So therefore I'd be okay adding some players on short term deals while we figure out with more certainty how our prospects start panning out. There inevitably will be guys who look like studs in the minors and fizzle out in the majors or maybe that take a year or two to figure it out (Moncada & Giolito as examples -- likely these guys are going to need some time to work out their kinks)

I like taking this thread in a different more baseball related direction, so +1 for you.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I don't understand spending money on patchwork when we could sign Bryce Harper. Throwing money towards Adam Jones, Gattis, Moylan, other SP's, etc. for a couple of years is perhaps more realistic, but why not save the money and roster spots and spend that money on a guy that will transform this team for the next 10 years a long with Machado?

I know that their is a big financial difference here, but I can't let the FO off the hook with the payroll that this team is trotting out there. They have room and payroll flexibility even with the signing of both Machado and Harper.

With the way this offseason has gone, I'd strongly want the front office to sign Machado and go very, very hard at Harper. If the Phillies go harder, then so be it... but I'd want them to immediately turn their attention to the Harper sweepstakes with the mindset of getting him around the $300 million contract mark. If the Phillies go larger, say, 325++ then forget it, but if we can get Harper for $300 mill you take it and run and have a beast of a team for the next 5-6 years. 

[GermanSoxFan]

The worst part about this whole ordeal is that the news of Machado signing or being close to signing could break any minute now or we could be waiting another month. 

 

 

[GermanSoxFan]

2 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I like taking this thread in a different more baseball related direction, so +1 for you.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I don't understand spending money on patchwork when we could sign Bryce Harper. Throwing money towards Adam Jones, Gattis, Moylan, other SP's, etc. for a couple of years is perhaps more realistic, but why not save the money and roster spots and spend that money on a guy that will transform this team for the next 10 years a long with Machado?

I know that their is a big financial difference here, but I can't let the FO off the hook with the payroll that this team is trotting out there. They have room and payroll flexibility even with the signing of both Machado and Harper.

With the way this offseason has gone, I'd strongly want the front office to sign Machado and go very, very hard at Harper. If the Phillies go harder, then so be it... but I'd want them to immediately turn their attention to the Harper sweepstakes with the mindset of getting him around the $300 million contract mark. If the Phillies go larger, say, 325++ then forget it, but if we can get Harper for $300 mill you take it and run and have a beast of a team for the next 5-6 years. 

While the Sox could certainly afford both for the next 3-4 years, players become more expensive through arb or even become free agents, which means that signing Harper would prevent the Sox from filling holes in the lineup or pitching staff. Pretty much the position the Cubs are in now.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I like taking this thread in a different more baseball related direction, so +1 for you.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I don't understand spending money on patchwork when we could sign Bryce Harper. Throwing money towards Adam Jones, Gattis, Moylan, other SP's, etc. for a couple of years is perhaps more realistic, but why not save the money and roster spots and spend that money on a guy that will transform this team for the next 10 years a long with Machado?

I know that their is a big financial difference here, but I can't let the FO off the hook with the payroll that this team is trotting out there. They have room and payroll flexibility even with the signing of both Machado and Harper.

With the way this offseason has gone, I'd strongly want the front office to sign Machado and go very, very hard at Harper. If the Phillies go harder, then so be it... but I'd want them to immediately turn their attention to the Harper sweepstakes with the mindset of getting him around the $300 million contract mark. If the Phillies go larger, say, 325++ then forget it, but if we can get Harper for $300 mill you take it and run and have a beast of a team for the next 5-6 years. 

For the next 2~3 years it would be fine, but potentially crippling down the road (underperformance/injury/not being able to hold onto young core talent). 

Name a team...any team...that has successfully pulled off two simultaneous deals like this and not regretted it down the line (like the Rangers with ARod).

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I feel like getting Manny and one of Sale/Cole/Bumgarner next offseason is better than getting both Machado and Harper now. The Sox need a legit ace to put at the front of an inexperienced rotation.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I feel like getting Manny and one of Sale/Cole/Bumgarner next offseason is better than getting both Machado and Harper now. The Sox need a legit ace to put at the front of an inexperienced rotation.

That's right.

[iWiN4PreP]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

For the next 2~3 years it would be fine, but potentially crippling down the road (underperformance/injury/not being able to hold onto young core talent). 

 Name a team...any team...that has successfully pulled off two simultaneous deals like this and not regretted it down the line (like the Rangers with ARod).

It's true that these contracts very often backfire. There's no denying that.

However, as a fan of the Chicago White Sox, we don't get these opportunities, we just don't. The market is begging us to make a move. I think we surely will with Machado, but I'd also love to get Harper.

Currently, we are at 80,000,000 in total salary, which is higher than I assumed. We can thank our newest arrivals:

Ivan Nova (2nd highest paid player on the team to Abreu at 9.2)
K. Herrera (8.5)
Yonder Alonso (8.0)
Alex Colome (7.3)
Jon Jay (4.0, 10th highest paid on team)
James McCann (2.5, 11th highest player paid on team)

That's 40 million spent this offseason. I'm not going to deny that we needed the solid RP help, but most of the others acquired have been pretty questionable. Would it be better spent on a contract for Harper? I think so, but this argument is beginning to diverge so i'll get back on topic.

With a lot of these being short term contracts and Abreu being a FA after the year, that puts our future total salary somewhere around 20-25 mill. Adding Harper+Machado for, say, 60 mill would only put us around 80-90 million total salary giving us a ton of room to extend anyone or buy a few more pieces. Getting Harper+Machado allows us to use our batting prospects to make trades as soon as this deadline for stud pitchers. 

My largest concern as a White Sox fan right now is that the front office is going to be cheap and pocket the money for themselves. I want this team to have a medium-to-large total payroll and I see no reason why they can't do that. I don't agree with the argument that signing both Machado and Harper (as long as it's in the range of 60-70 million per year for both) limits us going forward. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by iWiN4PreP

[Y2Jimmy0]

29 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I like taking this thread in a different more baseball related direction, so +1 for you.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I don't understand spending money on patchwork when we could sign Bryce Harper. Throwing money towards Adam Jones, Gattis, Moylan, other SP's, etc. for a couple of years is perhaps more realistic, but why not save the money and roster spots and spend that money on a guy that will transform this team for the next 10 years a long with Machado?

I know that their is a big financial difference here, but I can't let the FO off the hook with the payroll that this team is trotting out there. They have room and payroll flexibility even with the signing of both Machado and Harper.

With the way this offseason has gone, I'd strongly want the front office to sign Machado and go very, very hard at Harper. If the Phillies go harder, then so be it... but I'd want them to immediately turn their attention to the Harper sweepstakes with the mindset of getting him around the $300 million contract mark. If the Phillies go larger, say, 325++ then forget it, but if we can get Harper for $300 mill you take it and run and have a beast of a team for the next 5-6 years. 

After they sign Manny I think the best realistic outcome would be trading for Joc Pederson and signing Ervin Santana or Gio Gonzalez to round out the rotation. 

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, hi8is said:

You can only beat a dead horse so long

Working  at Balmoral race track while in college, the worst job was the horse meat wagon. Getting the lame horses off the track so the vet could put them down then hauling the dead horse away felt like beating a dead horse for far too long.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

It's true that these contracts very often backfire. There's no denying that.

However, as a fan of the Chicago White Sox, we don't get these opportunities, we just don't. The market is begging us to make a move. I think we surely will with Machado, but I'd also love to get Harper.

Currently, we are at 80,000,000 in total salary, which is higher than I assumed. We can thank our newest arrivals:

Ivan Nova (2nd highest paid player on the team to Abreu at 9.2)
K. Herrera (8.5)
Yonder Alonso (8.0)
Alex Colome (7.3)
Jon Jay (4.0, 10th highest paid on team)
James McCann (2.5, 11th highest player paid on team)

That's 40 million spent this offseason. I'm not going to deny that we needed the solid RP help, but most of the others acquired have been pretty questionable. Would it be better spent on a contract for Harper? I think so, but this argument is beginning to diverge so i'll get back on topic.

With a lot of these being short term contracts and Abreu being a FA after the year, that puts our future total salary somewhere around 20-25 mill. Adding Harper+Machado for, say, 60 mill would only put us around 80-90 million total salary giving us a ton of room to extend anyone or buy a few more pieces. Getting Harper+Machado allows us to use our batting prospects to make trades as soon as this deadline for stud pitchers. 

My largest concern as a White Sox fan right now is that the front office is going to be cheap and pocket the money for themselves. I want this team to have a medium-to-large total payroll and I see no reason why they can't do that. I don't agree with the argument that signing both Machado and Harper (as long as it's in the range of 60-70 million per year for both) limits us going forward. 

I really can't see Reinsdorf making that type of commitment on two contracts until first seeing where everything sits after the 2019 season...or possibly adding another longer term commitment at the trade deadline.

[iWiN4PreP]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

I really can't see Reinsdorf making that type of commitment on two contracts until first seeing where everything sits after the 2019 season...or possibly adding another longer term commitment at the trade deadline.

I doubt he'll ever get a chance to. 

For one, the market will not be this kind to the White Sox organization ever again. There are two 26 year old phenoms available and all the big market teams are out on them. There's almost no competition for them right now.

If there was any competition from any of these teams, there's almost no chance that the White Sox get them. That's why I'd prefer striking now while the getting is good.

 

Next, it's very rare that these types of players ever make it to free agency. Look at Nolan Arenado -- the Rockies are trying hard to negotiate a contract extension with him already, and my gut tells me they will have success. 

Additionally, if what you say about Reinsdorf is indeed true, it goes to prove my biggest worry that the front office is filled with cheapskates not interested in the goal of winning, but interested in filling their pockets. 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

With all the fandom-enduced anxiety surrounding the Machado derby, I almost forgot about Colome and Herrera trade/signing... If Hamilton can take the next step... boy... that's gonna be a legit late inning bullpen.

 

EDIT: words

Edited February 10, 2019 by Charlie Haeger's Knuckles

[fathom]

19 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

After they sign Manny I think the best realistic outcome would be trading for Joc Pederson and signing Ervin Santana or Gio Gonzalez to round out the rotation. 

I’m thinking Santana is their guy. Supposedly they’re not one of the 4-5 teams linked to Gio.

[smellysox]

22 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m thinking Santana is their guy. Supposedly they’re not one of the 4-5 teams linked to Gio.

Yeah I'm not sure Gio is their guy either. Dallas Keuchel is the type of pitcher the sox love. A ground ball pitcher with a low maintenance delivery.  I get it that he's old. I also get it that he wants 5 yrs.  No way I would do that.  I'd give him 2 with a 3rd yr option. Make it alot of money so that he'll take the 2 - 3 yrs. Sox can afford it.

[fathom]

Just now, smellysox said:

Yeah I'm not sure Gio is their guy either. Dallas Keuchel is the type of pitcher the sox love. A ground ball pitcher with a low maintenance delivery.  I get it that he's old. I also get it that he wants 5 yrs.  No way I would do that.  I'd give him 2 with a 3rd yr option. Make it alot of money so that he'll take the 2 - 3 yrs. Sox can afford it.

There was a report he wanted 6 or 7 years for 25-30 mil per coming into the offseason.  I think he's going to be disappointed.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

There was a report he wanted 6 or 7 years for 25-30 mil per coming into the offseason.  I think he's going to be disappointed.

Slightly. 

[hi8is]

53 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Working  at Balmoral race track while in college, the worst job was the horse meat wagon. Getting the lame horses off the track so the vet could put them down then hauling the dead horse away felt like beating a dead horse for far too long.

Morbid

[smellysox]

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

There was a report he wanted 6 or 7 years for 25-30 mil per coming into the offseason.  I think he's going to be disappointed.

Yeah well I wish I was important enough that a helicopter was sent for me because I was needed at work. So back to the real world......yeah, what he wants and what he gets are 2 different things. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I’m not against Kuechel if his market is depressed and he’s willing to accept a team friendly deal like Pollock did.  He wouldn’t be as sexy as Sale, Cole, or Verlander, but those guys should have huge markets next year and it may be prudent to grab a veteran starter while we can if he can be had on the cheap.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

This Manny saga reminds me of Stand By Me when Corey Feldman tells the other kids to hurry up or the kid won’t even be dead anymore LOL. Hurry up Manny! I’m ready for this signing to be finalized 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

This Manny saga reminds me of Stand By Me when Corey Feldman tells the other kids to hurry up or the kid won’t even be dead anymore LOL. Hurry up Manny! I’m ready for this signing to be finalized 

Everyone's going to have their hopes up for a Wednesday announcement, just like soxfest.  Already seen 3 or 4 people pop up on twitter saying Manny signs on Wednesday.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Everyone's going to have their hopes up for a Wednesday announcement, just like soxfest.  Already seen 3 or 4 people pop up on twitter saying Manny signs on Wednesday.

Anyone reliable or just randoms?  Either way, if I were a fake insider I’d be willing to gamble he signs this week because it just makes too much sense with spring training around the corner.  And honestly, Wednesday is probably the best if you want to throw a dart out there.  I’m pretty optimistic our pain & suffering does end by next Friday.

[bmags]

Best possible breaking of story would be Manny just there when all players report.