bmags Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I underestimated how much more impatient I would be for this after seeing pitchers and catchers report in arizona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: It could definitely be done. Heck, give Harper an opt out after 4 years. The Sox just need to be willing to operate in the $150M-200M range for 2020-2025. But Hahn has already said 2 isn't happening. Maybe if Machado gets 7/$220M or something it opens the door a crack, but I doubt it. The 200 mil number would be realllly high for 2021 even with Harper/Machado. That would have to include a front end SP and another 3+ WAR guy, a few good RPs, and Abreu resigning around 20/yr. We have virtually no money on the books in 2021. Hahn also would never play his hand. IF they have an opportunity to get both they'll try at least I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellysox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Kiebs13 said: While I agree, when have the Sox ever been extremely public with their plans (outside of their courting of machado). The sox work best in the weeds. This. And also maybe since Hahn said no about signing 2, the circumstances have changed. Maybe both camps have since turned to the Sox and have said They're interested in making it happen? Edited February 13, 2019 by smellysox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Lets be honest, even though everybody gets murdered here, Philadelphia is still a shit hole. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Lets be honest, even though everybody gets murdered here, Philadelphia is still a shit hole. Philly sucks, totally understand why players would not want to sign there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, Baron said: After all that talk by Rick about moves potentially being made and more roster shakeup taking place....here we are at Spring Training. Yonder Alonso our biggest acquisition and a horrible starting pitching staff. I'd feel worse if there weren't 100 other free agents still unemployed. This was literally the worst free agent market in modern history. You could about build a playoff team from the people who are FAs right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It would be a really good time to start an expansion team. You could make yourself a halfway decent team right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: It would be a really good time to start an expansion team. You could make yourself a halfway decent team right off the bat. The Sox are kind of in the same position as an expansion team right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: The 200 mil number would be realllly high for 2021 even with Harper/Machado. That would have to include a front end SP and another 3+ WAR guy, a few good RPs, and Abreu resigning around 20/yr. We have virtually no money on the books in 2021. Hahn also would never play his hand. IF they have an opportunity to get both they'll try at least I think. Arbitration won't be cheap in 2021 - assuming growth. If you commit 65 million to two players, you are capping yourself quite a bit. Let's say the Sox return to the days when they ran a top 5 payroll - you're still looking in the 170-180ish range. That would mean that Machado and Harper would be taking up 36% of the payroll, roughly, and they'd only make up 8% of the roster. Tim will be owed 10 million: Then you have: Moncada - Arb 2 (if decent, 10 million) Lopez - Arb 2 (If decent, 10 million+) Gio - Arb 2 (7 million) Rodon - Arb 3 (14 million+) Herrera - 10 million Nate Jones - 6 million This is 132 million and it is tied up in They will then be without a 1st baseman, without a catcher (let's assume Collins or Seby fill this roll, so we'll say 2.5 million at catcher). Robert will be on the books still as well. That means, between just the guys above, the Sox will have 10 players on their roster and 132 million in payroll - leaving them with about 50 million to sign/fill the remaining 15 spots on the roster - or about 3.3 million per player. The Sox would have zero wiggle room for failure by signing both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, shipps said: The Sox are kind of in the same position as an expansion team right now. Yes but no. You wouldn't have the prospects the Sox have and worry about blocking anyone. Just to fill out a major league roster, with an expansion draft and free agency being what it is, and teams in the tank, you could probably build a .500 team pretty cheaply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I think this weekend is going to be quite busy. My guesses for actual mlb contracts signed of who is left: (harpchado obvs) Keuchel Kimbrel Moustakas Gio Jose Iglesias Dietrich Marwin Gonzalez adam Jones On Fence on: Gattis, Buchholz, X Cedeno, Sipp Everyone else is likely gonna grab a minor league deal, and obviously quite a few may be like melky was last year just waiting for some injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Arbitration won't be cheap in 2021 - assuming growth. If you commit 65 million to two players, you are capping yourself quite a bit. Let's say the Sox return to the days when they ran a top 5 payroll - you're still looking in the 170-180ish range. That would mean that Machado and Harper would be taking up 36% of the payroll, roughly, and they'd only make up 8% of the roster. Tim will be owed 10 million: Then you have: Moncada - Arb 2 (if decent, 10 million) Lopez - Arb 2 (If decent, 10 million+) Gio - Arb 2 (7 million) Rodon - Arb 3 (14 million+) Herrera - 10 million Nate Jones - 6 million This is 132 million and it is tied up in They will then be without a 1st baseman, without a catcher (let's assume Collins or Seby fill this roll, so we'll say 2.5 million at catcher). Robert will be on the books still as well. That means, between just the guys above, the Sox will have 10 players on their roster and 132 million in payroll - leaving them with about 50 million to sign/fill the remaining 15 spots on the roster - or about 3.3 million per player. The Sox would have zero wiggle room for failure by signing both. I think a good illustration of this is the white sox spent $24 million this year acquiring two decent bullpen arms and a 5th starter. It adds up really quickly as you add even marginal depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, bmags said: I think a good illustration of this is the white sox spent $24 million this year acquiring two decent bullpen arms and a 5th starter. It adds up really quickly as you add even marginal depth. Yeah, I'm not even counting the money they'll owe to young bullpen guys that will be arb eligible. It won't be a lot, but it'll be 3-5 million per if their any good. The Sox would be better off giving Manny the 32 million/per and then using the Harper 35 millionish to sign 2+ MLB players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellysox Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Also, over this past weekend we kept hearing about the Giants and their short term contract with alot of $$ being offered to Harper. And then one of the national guys tweets out (thanks to Boris) that Harper is only going to sign a long term contract. Well, who does that leave? Philadelphia and Chicago. Maybe San Diego? And if Harper really doesn't want to go to Philadelphia? Absolutely could see a scenario where both Manny's camp and Harper's camp turn to the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: I think a good illustration of this is the white sox spent $24 million this year acquiring two decent bullpen arms and a 5th starter. It adds up really quickly as you add even marginal depth. The sox still found a way to spend over 80 million this year which is.... impressive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: I think a good illustration of this is the white sox spent $24 million this year acquiring two decent bullpen arms and a 5th starter. It adds up really quickly as you add even marginal depth. Those are off the books in 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSexy23 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: I think this weekend is going to be quite busy. My guesses for actual mlb contracts signed of who is left: (harpchado obvs) Keuchel Kimbrel Moustakas Gio Jose Iglesias Dietrich Marwin Gonzalez adam Jones On Fence on: Gattis, Buchholz, X Cedeno, Sipp Everyone else is likely gonna grab a minor league deal, and obviously quite a few may be like melky was last year just waiting for some injuries. Denard Span, Carlos Gonzalez, Josh Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Arbitration won't be cheap in 2021 - assuming growth. If you commit 65 million to two players, you are capping yourself quite a bit. Let's say the Sox return to the days when they ran a top 5 payroll - you're still looking in the 170-180ish range. That would mean that Machado and Harper would be taking up 36% of the payroll, roughly, and they'd only make up 8% of the roster. Tim will be owed 10 million: Then you have: Moncada - Arb 2 (if decent, 10 million) Lopez - Arb 2 (If decent, 10 million+) Gio - Arb 2 (7 million) Rodon - Arb 3 (14 million+) Herrera - 10 million Nate Jones - 6 million This is 132 million and it is tied up in They will then be without a 1st baseman, without a catcher (let's assume Collins or Seby fill this roll, so we'll say 2.5 million at catcher). Robert will be on the books still as well. That means, between just the guys above, the Sox will have 10 players on their roster and 132 million in payroll - leaving them with about 50 million to sign/fill the remaining 15 spots on the roster - or about 3.3 million per player. The Sox would have zero wiggle room for failure by signing both. Just to point out - if all of those guys are good enough in 2020 to earn those salaries in arbitration, the White Sox will have won the 2020 AL Central, and they will be as frightening of a roster as there is in baseball for 2021. Also worth noting - Moncada, Lopez, and Giolito are only arb-1 in 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Those are off the books in 2 years That's not the point. His point is having to add guys like that may not be individually expensive, but it adds up quickly when its 3 or 4 guys to fill the end of your 25 man. Edited February 13, 2019 by mqr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Arbitration won't be cheap in 2021 - assuming growth. If you commit 65 million to two players, you are capping yourself quite a bit. Let's say the Sox return to the days when they ran a top 5 payroll - you're still looking in the 170-180ish range. That would mean that Machado and Harper would be taking up 36% of the payroll, roughly, and they'd only make up 8% of the roster. Tim will be owed 10 million: Then you have: Moncada - Arb 2 (if decent, 10 million) Lopez - Arb 2 (If decent, 10 million+) Gio - Arb 2 (7 million) Rodon - Arb 3 (14 million+) Herrera - 10 million Nate Jones - 6 million This is 132 million and it is tied up in They will then be without a 1st baseman, without a catcher (let's assume Collins or Seby fill this roll, so we'll say 2.5 million at catcher). Robert will be on the books still as well. That means, between just the guys above, the Sox will have 10 players on their roster and 132 million in payroll - leaving them with about 50 million to sign/fill the remaining 15 spots on the roster - or about 3.3 million per player. The Sox would have zero wiggle room for failure by signing both. I don't think it would be that difficult, but you would have to be essentially gambling on our prospects. I'm not going to dissect a roster 3 years down the road but I feel like it could be done if that's what the FO wanted with both Manny and Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, BigSexy23 said: Denard Span, Carlos Gonzalez, Josh Harrison Harrison probably a good bet for a major league deal, thanks. I'm honestly gonna be surprised if Carlos Gonzalez makes it, and Span at this point feels like when we used to sign Bourjos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Just to point out - if all of those guys are good enough in 2020 to earn those salaries in arbitration, the White Sox will have won the 2020 AL Central, and they will be as frightening of a roster as there is in baseball for 2021. Also worth noting - Moncada, Lopez, and Giolito are only arb-1 in 2021. 7 and 10 million in arbitration aren't what they used to be in Arb. If Moncada is actually good he could easily go 15+. Lopez could easily get more than 10. Those were actually not optimistic projections - based on arbitration 2 settlements this year, if those guys are still in the league contributing all year those salaries are actually quite likely. If they're not in the league, the Sox will have to spend at least that to fill those holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Presser has started. First question is not about Manny, so why are we even doing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Well, no announcement to start the PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: The 200 mil number would be realllly high for 2021 even with Harper/Machado. That would have to include a front end SP and another 3+ WAR guy, a few good RPs, and Abreu resigning around 20/yr. We have virtually no money on the books in 2021. Hahn also would never play his hand. IF they have an opportunity to get both they'll try at least I think. Which is why I said $150M-$200M over that 5 year span. Sox payroll is about $80M right now. Add Machado and Harper, and its going to be damn close to $150M in 2019 without any other additions (like adding a legitimate 5th starter, or trading for Pederson, etc. - both moves you should probably make if you're adding both MM and Harper). Edited February 13, 2019 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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