Dick Allen Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said: If neither Lozano or Hahn confirm a deal is done, and none of Rosenthal, etc. report it, then what exactly do the Phillies know? What does Boras know? If Manny agreed to a White Sox contract, how would the Phillies not know he isn't negotiating with him any more? And if it's cool to fake negotiate in an effort to keep another player's contract down, great. This is even dumber than added security for a press conference. The fakes have officially run out of ideas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: How the hell did we get back to We Are Landing Bothland? Folks, it ain't happening. Hahn has come out in the past and insisted we can't land both. I'd rather trust him than some randoms on Twitter with 500 followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: How the hell did we get back to We Are Landing Bothland? Folks, it ain't happening. I think it's people trying to figure out what the delay is. It's certainly not logical that we would sign both...but it's almost down to the "OK something NOT logical is the only explanation." There's really no reason why these guys shouldn't be signed by teams now. It's either a DRASTIC value discrepancy (likely) or someone is trying to pull off the improbable and negotiate both--and has both agents on board to hold out till they know if it can be done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, FT35 said: I think it's people trying to figure out what the delay is. It's certainly not logical that we would sign both...but it's almost down to the "OK something NOT logical is the only explanation." There's really no reason why these guys shouldn't be signed by teams now. It's either a DRASTIC value discrepancy (likely) or someone is trying to pull off the improbable and negotiate both--and has both agents on board to hold out till they know if it can be done. It's pretty simple, both of these guys are getting less than what they thought they'd get heading into free agency and from teams that aren't as prestigious as they wanted. Thus, there's no reason to rush a signing. Why go to Spring Training for 6 weeks instead of 3 weeks if you can get away with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FT35 said: I think it's people trying to figure out what the delay is. It's certainly not logical that we would sign both...but it's almost down to the "OK something NOT logical is the only explanation." There's really no reason why these guys shouldn't be signed by teams now. It's either a DRASTIC value discrepancy (likely) or someone is trying to pull off the improbable and negotiate both--and has both agents on board to hold out till they know if it can be done. They could have wrapped this up the first week of free agency. Corbin was quick and got paid. The markets these guys want to play in aren't available, so it's most likely less money and a place they would rather not be. They are not losing anything waiting now. It's a hail Mary, but they are most likely hoping one of their preferred spots has some sort of change of heart. The most simple explanation is these guys really would rather not play for the White Sox or Phillies. Edited February 14, 2019 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: If Manny agreed to a White Sox contract, how would the Phillies not know he isn't negotiating with him any more? And if it's cool to fake negotiate in an effort to keep another player's contract down, great. This is even dumber than added security for a press conference. The fakes have officially run out of ideas. You keep saying "fake negotiate." That's not what's happening. The Phillies have an offer out to Manny (we think). End of story. There's no negotiating happening right now. They are just waiting, and possibly not even engaging with Lozano themselves right now because they are more focused on Harper. If Lozano told the Phillies that Manny would sign with the Sox unless they increased their offer, and then, nothing, no announcement, then what do the Phillies know exactly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 If we assume that both are going to sign for similar amounts (though I think Harper gets more regardless if he signs first), I'm not convinced that the 2nd one to sign is going to get more money. The theme of these chases seems to be that their are few suitors for both guys, and a signing of one is presumably going to take one of those suitors out of the running. Now the other team knows they have less competition for the other guy, and there's not really an incentive to increase their offer. I get that desperation could set in but based on how long this has dragged out thus far I'm not convinced that there would be a panic offer incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, chw42 said: Hahn has come out in the past and insisted we can't land both. I'd rather trust him than some randoms on Twitter with 500 followers. I agree. But what is he going to say? A comment like "We would absolutely love to sign both and will do everything in our power to get both on the Southside." doesn't exactly help is negotiating power. I think Harper has always been a pipe dream and I don't think there is much interest on his end, but if the Sox are able to get MM signed for something like 7/$220 or 8/$250M, I do think the Sox will at least continue to monitor the Harper market. If MM ends up costing more like $300M over 8 years, I kind of doubt they even both continuing talks with Bryce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Can someone explain to me why Olney's rumor today is considered any different than where all the rumors have been headed for 1-2 weeks? Philly gets Harper with the biggest contract of the offseason, Manny settles for 2nd biggest contract with Chicago. How's that out of line with Nightengale, Morosi, or anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: It's pretty simple, both of these guys are getting less than what they thought they'd get heading into free agency and from teams that aren't as prestigious as they wanted. Thus, there's no reason to rush a signing. Why go to Spring Training for 6 weeks instead of 3 weeks if you can get away with it? Well they are missing the buffet table in the clubhouse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Princess Dye said: Can someone explain to me why Olney's rumor today is considered any different than where all the rumors have been headed for 1-2 weeks? Philly gets Harper with the biggest contract of the offseason, Manny settles for 2nd biggest contract with Chicago. How's that out of line with Nightengale, Morosi, or anyone else? And now we have Hector confirming the report, but who knows if he's misinterpreting what safety net means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, Kiebs13 said: pretty sure this guy is actually... https://twitter.com/stevedaly32 JMR follows 5 people. the above guy, stadium, the sox, the bulls, and the ceo of stadium (possibly fake-only 600 followers). the only guy who follows JMR back is Steve. He also happens to have tweeted this two days ago... EDIT: he's followed by the 108 and Josh Nelson from sox machine. This is odd lol If Machado and Harper both sign with the Sox just wondering what kind of advertising $$$ could they earn on a yearly basis, from the local market? Has to be a few more $$$ in their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Have an issue with this logic. Boras and Lozano aren't going to sign any deal without soliciting a final offer from the other competing teams. Doesn't make any sense. Best case scenario is White Sox have an offer on the table that Machado would sign if no one else tops it by whatever his cutoff date of personal comfort is. Monday, when hitters report? March 1st? Beginning of the season? It's clear whatever this hypothetical offer is is a) below what Machado wants and b) still the highest offer anyway. Machado has no reason not to wait things out in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, chw42 said: Hahn has come out in the past and insisted we can't land both. I'd rather trust him than some randoms on Twitter with 500 followers. Also this. Really, this would have to be something coming directly from Jerry, but I would imagine that Rick would know this stuff ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think the other factor is that Bryce Harper is simply not a $350M+ baseball player. He might bring that value to a franchise, but a decent size portion of that value is his face. So you think, what teams would pay the premium for his face over his numbers? You'd think the Sox would need a face as much as the numbers at this point in their position. But Philly needs his numbers more than his face, so the offers are coming up short because Harper COULD be worth a TON more to a team who needs his...wait for it..."face value." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: You keep saying "fake negotiate." That's not what's happening. The Phillies have an offer out to Manny (we think). End of story. There's no negotiating happening right now. They are just waiting, and possibly not even engaging with Lozano themselves right now because they are more focused on Harper. If Lozano told the Phillies that Manny would sign with the Sox unless they increased their offer, and then, nothing, no announcement, then what do the Phillies know exactly? If you don't think the Phillies are in constant contact with Manny's agent, you are being foolish. To not say you have already agreed to a contract with another team, for the sole purpose of keeping Harper's potential contract lower, is not professional or moral. The agent would be done. Manny would be an outcast. The White Sox would penalized very severely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellysox Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: It seems like an exercise in futility, but there are two very good reasons to not announce a Machado deal before a Harper deal: Boras would use the terms of the Machado deal to his advantage. He would almost certainly set it as a floor. The Phillies would likely panic into offering Harper more money, if they had confirmation that Machado was off the market. And not to mention that Harper's camp and the Phillies I'm sure by now have seen all the tweets hinting at such - Plus all of our very own pages here at sox talk . I'm sure it's not a secret now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Also this. Really, this would have to be something coming directly from Jerry, but I would imagine that Rick would know this stuff ahead of time. There was nothing to gain for Hahn to say they could possibly afford both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiebs13 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: And now we have Hector confirming the report, but who knows if he's misinterpreting what safety net means. Was definitely a language thing with Hector just by looking at his tweets. To me he was saying the sox are still the leaders for manny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) OK, which one of you is this? Edited February 14, 2019 by Orlando 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 There's only one way Hahn could have answered that question and he answered it perfectly. If he left any semblance of a "we don't have a spending limit" or "we aren't limiting ourselves to just one premium free agent" out there, the fanbase would have gone absolutely crazy thinking we were going for both. His answer means nothing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, Orlando said: OK, which one of you is this? 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, Jose Abreu said: There's only one way Hahn could have answered that question and he answered it perfectly. If he left any semblance of a "we don't have a spending limit" or "we aren't limiting ourselves to just one premium free agent" out there, the fanbase would have gone absolutely crazy thinking we were going for both. His answer means nothing to me. Could have easily said “we aren’t ruling out any possibility that makes this club better and fits our long term goals” He clearly shut it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Orlando said: OK, which one of you is this? Poop burglar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Waffleson Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 -1 for Hector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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