Bad Hombre Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It would be hard to argue with you. If the White Sox are offering the most money, and they want to play here, it would seem something other than waiting would have happened by now. What if the Sox are offering the most money, but that number isn’t as high as the agent/player want? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesterday333 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It would be hard to argue with you. If the White Sox are offering the most money, and they want to play here, it would seem something other than waiting would have happened by now. Or their agents think they have a chance of getting more money by waiting.... and they were hoping to get more than they are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlsoxfan Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Here we go on a downward spiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It would be hard to argue with you. If the White Sox are offering the most money, and they want to play here, it would seem something other than waiting would have happened by now. It's really not hard to argue. Like at all. It doesn't matter who has the most money when they're all 100 million short of expectations. Do we all forget that this situation happened exactly a year ago? Edited February 15, 2019 by mqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: It's really not hard to argue. Like at all. It doesn't matter who has the most money when they're all 100 million short of expectations. Do we all forget that this situation happened exactly a year ago? Yeah, and when that happens, does the player take the most money or do other factors come into play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Yeah, and when that happens, does the player take the most money or do other factors come into play? He takes the most money when he has run out the clock. It's really not that difficult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, mqr said: It's really not hard to argue. Like at all. It doesn't matter who has the most money when they're all 100 million short of expectations. Do we all forget that this situation happened exactly a year ago? If they are being offered the second or third highest contract of all time, both in total amount and AAV, and they really wanted to be White Sox, they would be White Sox right now, not holding out for some miracle. It's already way more money than they will ever spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If they are being offered the second or third highest contract of all time, both in total amount and AAV, and they really wanted to be White Sox, they would be White Sox right now, not holding out for some miracle. It's already way more money than they will ever spend. JD Martinez literally just did this the Boston Red Sox. Yu Darvish did it with the Cubs. Nothing quite as undesirable as those two teams, right? This is all sky is falling Chicken Little stuff. Let it play out and try not to project your own fears onto a multi-hundred million dollar negotiation. Edited February 15, 2019 by mqr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiebs13 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) there are a few people on this board who are extremely irrational. relax. it's free agency. in today's game, this is how long it takes. every little thing that comes out is probably total BS and to take anything said as "they don't want to be here" is INSANE. who would have thought a few years ago (or even at the beginning of the offseason) that the sox would be in the final 3 or 4 teams for each of the big guys. they're doing something right this offseason guys. chill out. Edited February 15, 2019 by Kiebs13 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mqr said: JD Martinez literally just did this the Boston Red Sox. Yu Darvish did it with the Cubs. Nothing quite as undesirable as those two teams, right? This is all sky is falling Chicken Little stuff. Let it play out and try not to project your own fears onto a multi-hundred million dollar negotiation. What were Darvish's pre-Cubs offers? And how many months was he sitting on the Cubs offer? JD Martinez signed for less than half of what "insiders" say the Sox offered Machado. Edited February 15, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: What were Darvish's pre-Cubs offers? And how many months was he sitting on the Cubs offer? JD Martinez signed for less than half of what "insiders" say the Sox offered Machado. The deal Martinez signed was basically the same that was rumored months prior (in terms of years and money, but the final deal had creative options). By your argument his decision to wait must have been due to him not wanting to play with the boston red sox. Yes, if the Red Sox had offered him $250 million it is likely he would have signed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kiebs13 said: there are a few people on this board who are extremely irrational. relax. it's free agency. in today's game, this is how long it takes. every little thing that comes out is probably total BS and to take anything said as "they don't want to be here" is INSANE. who would have thought a few years ago (or even at the beginning of the offseason) that the sox would be in the final 3 or 4 teams for each of the big guys. they're doing something right this offseason guys. chill out. It really doesn't have to be this way. Patrick Corbin signed quickly for a lot of money. Chances are if he were still out there, he would not get what he was hoping. If Boras and Lozano got serious in November and December and said, it's final offer time, the numbers wouldn't be much different than they will be if they do it now. In fact, they may even have been better because teams may have spent at least some of what they planned to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: It really doesn't have to be this way. Patrick Corbin signed quickly for a lot of money. Chances are if he were still out there, he would not get what he was hoping. If Boras and Lozano got serious in November and December and said, it's final offer time, the numbers wouldn't be much different than they will be if they do it now. In fact, they may even have been better because teams may have spent at least some of what they planned to offer. I completely agree with this, but you have implied this isn't a negotiating strategy by the players and is instead over player team preference. I disagree that the players are losing money by waiting though. The teams to this point have shown they don't actually care about backup plans. They have players they target and if they miss out they seem to just play with what they have (implying that the remaining free agents are worth less than even their depth pieces). They may be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, bmags said: The deal Martinez signed was basically the same that was rumored months prior (in terms of years and money, but the final deal had creative options). By your argument his decision to wait must have been due to him not wanting to play with the boston red sox. Yes, if the Red Sox had offered him $250 million it is likely he would have signed. Every situation is different. But there is a big difference trying to get more when it's $110 million vs. trying to get more when it's $250 million. And if the White Sox are offering $250 million, and the Yankees are out, what is Machado waiting for if this is where he wants to be? He would rather be somewhere else, or the offer is more Levine, Olney like. Texiera said it on MLBN. These guys are going to wind up goind somewhere they would rather not be. I don't feel sorry for them, because they could go play exactly where they want to play and still make enough money not to have ever worry about money again at age 26. But this is ridiculous money. There really is no difference between $200 million and $400 million except ego. It's money they will never spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiebs13 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 but that's the way it is right now. no one wants to be the team to bid against themselves. on top of that, that has NOTHING to do with the fact on where players want to play. it's dragging out because they want the best offer possible. that's the only reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: I completely agree with this, but you have implied this isn't a negotiating strategy by the players and is instead over player team preference. I disagree that the players are losing money by waiting though. The teams to this point have shown they don't actually care about backup plans. They have players they target and if they miss out they seem to just play with what they have (implying that the remaining free agents are worth less than even their depth pieces). They may be right. I think it is team preference now. They would rather not be White Sox. They are holding out hope, somehow their desired spot has a sudden opening. It's most likely not going to happen, but it does fit with Olney's safety net. The White Sox are the fallback plan. They aren't plan A., maybe not even plan B or C, but they are plan something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Don't forget, they also have JD Martinez to use as an example. Hundreds of millions of dollars aren't going to suddenly appear in the middle of February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxnfins Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: I think it is team preference now. They would rather not be White Sox. They are holding out hope, somehow their desired spot has a sudden opening. It's most likely not going to happen, but it does fit with Olney's safety net. The White Sox are the fallback plan. They aren't plan A., maybe not even plan B or C, but they are plan something. Honestly don't think Manny cares about what team he plays on, that's moreso Harper. Manny would play for the Toledo Mudhens if they offered the most money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Every situation is different. But there is a big difference trying to get more when it's $110 million vs. trying to get more when it's $250 million. And if the White Sox are offering $250 million, and the Yankees are out, what is Machado waiting for if this is where he wants to be? He would rather be somewhere else, or the offer is more Levine, Olney like. Texiera said it on MLBN. These guys are going to wind up goind somewhere they would rather not be. I don't feel sorry for them, because they could go play exactly where they want to play and still make enough money not to have ever worry about money again at age 26. But this is ridiculous money. There really is no difference between $200 million and $400 million except ego. It's money they will never spend. Recognition is big, they feel they are best in game and want to get paid like it. JD Martinez was and is one of the best hitters in baseball, he felt he should be worth just as much as what Chris Davis got. He settled for what was there after waiting to see if it could change. He didn't lose money. Same with Manny. He will be happy with the amount of money he has. But they inevitably feel like they are best and should get paid like it. Is he holding for $50 mill? Earlier opt out? Another year? Who knows but they have (correctly) calculated that they aren't losing by waiting, and look, here just came preller and jumped into mix late. Proof that waiting can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I just hope that this scenario doesn’t play out...he genuinely doesn’t want to play here, eventually takes the most money offered, have it be the Sox and the Sox suck for the next year or two and he become a toxic influence on the team because he is playing where he isn’t happy. Doom and mfn doom, I know. My seasonal affective disorder is going full force right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Man, I just hate how these two big signings are basically holding up baseball. I *want* to play fantasy baseball, I *want* to talk about baseball and make predictions, but I just can't until these two guys sign to a team. Grrrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 i know we can gripe about 250 million cause most of us wont see that type of money to begin with. last year at this time insiders were saying Harper is getting 400-500 million and Machado was getting 350. Now there being offered any where from 175-300 million. Tell me your ego wouldnt take a hit? The fact of the matter is they are trying to get the most out if it they can. That is not personal. its busines.. Yes it's frustrating as a fan but I understand the logic behind this. what cracks me up is when A-Rod got 250 million 20 years ago or so we all freaked out. Now we act like 250 million to Machado is peanuts. Hey lets all spend Jerrys money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kiebs13 said: but that's the way it is right now. no one wants to be the team to bid against themselves. on top of that, that has NOTHING to do with the fact on where players want to play. it's dragging out because they want the best offer possible. that's the only reason. If that's the case, then the agents need to tell teams this is happening now, give it your best shot. The numbers won't be significantly different than they will be a month from now. You want teams to get off the pot, you have to provide a deadline. Deadlines get things done in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I think it is team preference now. They would rather not be White Sox. They are holding out hope, somehow their desired spot has a sudden opening. It's most likely not going to happen, but it does fit with Olney's safety net. The White Sox are the fallback plan. They aren't plan A., maybe not even plan B or C, but they are plan something. This is one interpretation. The other is the sox contract isn't going away, but the sox also aren't increasing their offer without other, bigger offers. So they need other teams to get into the mix to improve their offers and in turn the white sox. They can safely do this, because the white sox aren't going to move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If that's the case, then the agents need to tell teams this is happening now, give it your best shot. The numbers won't be significantly different than they will be a month from now. You want teams to get off the pot, you have to provide a deadline. Deadlines get things done in MLB. Deadlines are just throwing away any leverage you might have. What is he going to do, not play when all the teams don't care that he set a deadline? Edited February 15, 2019 by mqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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