Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: Thoughts on the potential infield logjam the Sox will have if Machado comes here? Will Madrigal be traded? Will he play 2B and Moncada goes to CF? Its too early to worry about it. Machado at 3B, Anderson at SS, and Moncada at 2B. Madrigal will start the year at Winston-Salem. It's a good problem to have that doesn't need resolution in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Moncada said: Got a few years before that becomes a problem. My guess is Anderson would move to center before Moncada. Got a logjam there as well so I dont see either Anderson or Moncada moving to CF. Anderson isnt moving from Short. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Waffleson Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Its too early to worry about it. Machado at 3B, Anderson at SS, and Moncada at 2B. Madrigal will start the year at Winston-Salem. It's a good problem to have that doesn't need resolution in 2019. Agree. We got another year or two before it would force a move. Arbitration raises and potential injurys may force a solution Personally would love to see madigral pan out and hit leadoff eventually. Edited February 16, 2019 by Ben Waffleson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said: Yet, you have 9,000 more posts than I do, but I have nearly 30 more rep points. ? Edit: It is 30 now. He had a ton of posts before rep was a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: White Sox have lost 100 games 19 years in a row but they have a logjam of talent in the IF and OF jajajajaja. What? Do the Sox not have 7+ quality outfield prospects in Jimenez, Robert, Adolfo, Gonzalez, Basabe, Rutherford, Walker, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: What? Do the Sox not have 7+ quality outfield prospects in Jimenez, Robert, Adolfo, Gonzalez, Basabe, Rutherford, Walker, etc? Yes, the key word is prospects. Manny machado, Tim anderson and yoan moncada were/would be our only average or above average MLB players from last year. Theres zero reason to worry about prospects when signing machado. Yoan was the #1 prospect in baseball a year ago and now you're talking about moving him because of another prospect who wasnt as highly acclaimed. A lot of the prospects wont work out. The Sox are hoping to get 4 position players out of the bunch and probably 3 starters and more relievers. That would be considered a big success. Maybe 2 additional useful pieces that arent real impact guys. Edited February 16, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, ItsCalledComiskey said: Or just buy the city of Gary. Nah, racists won't allow that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes, the key word is prospects. Manny machado, Tim anderson and yoan moncada were/would be our only average or above average MLB players from last year. Theres zero reason to worry about prospects when signing machado. Yoan was the #1 prospect in baseball a year ago and now you're talking about moving him because of another prospect who wasnt as highly acclaimed. A lot of the prospects wont work out. The Sox are hoping to get 4 position players out of the bunch and probably 3 starters and more relievers. That would be considered a big success. Maybe 2 additional useful pieces that arent real impact guys. I agree that they won’t all pan out, and I’m also not worried about the “problem” since these things usually work themselves out. But I’d be willing to bet that at least 3 of the outfielders I listed become competent major leaguers or better (Jimenez, Robert, and at least one more), if healthy. Having 7+ outfielders with that potential corresponds quite literally with the definition of a “logjam of talent in the outfield”, “talent” being the operative word. I suppose our disagreement is more or less about semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: I agree that they won’t all pan out, and I’m also not worried about the “problem” since these things usually work themselves out. But I’d be willing to bet that at least 3 of the outfielders I listed become competent major leaguers or better (Jimenez, Robert, and at least one more), if healthy. Having 7+ outfielders with that potential corresponds quite literally with the definition of a “logjam of talent in the outfield”, “talent” being the operative word. I suppose our disagreement is more or less about semantics. Roberts range of outcomes is probably the widest. He has the most variance. He could be a bonafide mlb superstar or he could be a guy who never ever hits consistently enough for average to make an impact offensively. His defense and speed is so good that he can impact a game but his hit took needs to improve and he needs reps for that. Health needs to be better. I think the white Sox safest mlb prospect after eloy is Luis. I honestly think he has around a 50% chance of being a 3+ WAR player for multiple years. He has no holes in his game. He reminds me of the guys like Jose Ramirez who produce produce produce in the minors but doesnt have any really load tools so hes underrated and underappreciated. Gonzalez is a straight up baller. Edited February 16, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Roberts range of outcomes is probably the widest. He has the most variance. He could be a bonafide mlb superstar or he could be a guy who never ever hits consistently enough for average to make an impact offensively. His defense and speed is so good that he can impact a game but his hit took needs to improve and he needs reps for that. Health needs to be better. I think the white Sox safest mlb prospect after eloy is Luis. I honestly think he has around a 50% chance of being a 3+ WAR player for multiple years. He has no holes in his game. Lol we have three Luis OF prospects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said: Yet, you have 9,000 more posts than I do, but I have nearly 30 more rep points. ? Edit: It is 30 now. The whole basis of “rep points” only started recently, smart guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, bmags said: Lol we have three Luis OF prospects Gonzalez is who I'm talking about. Said it in my edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: That might ALSO have something to do with many not posting much THIS year...especially in the second half of the season after Kopech went down. Or having the time recently to post on the day to day status of Machado and Harper. If you could break it down to posts since the system started divided by likes rewarded to get a comparative ratio, you might have a legit VORP number. Uh... what he said. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Roberts range of outcomes is probably the widest. He has the most variance. He could be a bonafide mlb superstar or he could be a guy who never ever hits consistently enough for average to make an impact offensively. His defense and speed is so good that he can impact a game but his hit took needs to improve and he needs reps for that. Health needs to be better. I think the white Sox safest mlb prospect after eloy is Luis. I honestly think he has around a 50% chance of being a 3+ WAR player for multiple years. He has no holes in his game. He reminds me of the guys like Jose Ramirez who produce produce produce in the minors but doesnt have any really load tools so hes underrated and underappreciated. Gonzalez is a straight up baller. I agree with you on Gonzalez being safe. With respect to Robert, I'll emphasize that I think he'll be a "competent major leaguer" at worst, if healthy. I firmly believe that you could put Luis Robert in center field for us right now and he'd be better than Engel. He's faster, offers more range defensively, and has a better arm. He's raw offensively, so I'm sure his hitting wouldn't be very good, but a 67 wRC+ isn't very hard to match given his tools. He certainly held his own against more advanced pitching in the AFL last year. Even if strikeouts are always a part of his game, I'm confident that a healthy Robert's defense and speed alone will give him value, but that he will develop as a hitter and tap into his raw power so that he isn't just a slightly better Engel. Either way, health is the biggest question mark for him going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: I agree with you on Gonzalez being safe. With respect to Robert, I'll emphasize that I think he'll be a "competent major leaguer" at worst, if healthy. I firmly believe that you could put Luis Robert in center field for us right now and he'd be better than Engel. He's faster, offers more range defensively, and has a better arm. He's raw offensively, so I'm sure his hitting wouldn't be very good, but a 67 wRC+ isn't very hard to match given his tools. He certainly held his own against more advanced pitching in the AFL last year. Even if strikeouts are always a part of his game, I'm confident that a healthy Robert's defense and speed alone will give him value, but that he will develop as a hitter and tap into his raw power so that he isn't just a slightly better Engel. Either way, health is the biggest question mark for him going forward. Eh, Engel is a top 3 defensive cfer in baseball. I'm not sure I would say Robert is a better defender at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Eh, Engel is a top 3 defensive cfer in baseball. I'm not sure I would say Robert is a better defender at all. Fangraphs has Engel at #11, partially because his arm is so bad. I think he's better than #11 but it's still something to consider. Engel's biggest strengths defensively are his range and instincts. Given Robert's speed, I'd assume that his range is the same or better. Instincts are where my argument falls apart since I haven't seen Robert play personally, but his (likely) better arm and similar range are pretty important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: Fangraphs has Engel at #11, partially because his arm is so bad. I think he's better than #11 but it's still something to consider. Engel's biggest strengths defensively are his range and instincts. Given Robert's speed, I'd assume that his range is the same or better. Instincts are where my argument falls apart since I haven't seen Robert play personally, but his (likely) better arm and similar range are pretty important to me. You can't use year to year defensive metrics to determine the abilities of a player due to a lot of factors; mainly being put out opportunities can vary significantly year to year in the outfield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, South Sider said: He had a ton of posts before rep was a thing. Yeah but how many were good ones? Seven? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You can't use year to year defensive metrics to determine the abilities of a player due to a lot of factors; mainly being put out opportunities can vary significantly year to year in the outfield. I agree, and to clarify, I'm not trying to argue that Engel is the #11 defensive CFer. Just that his arm negates some of his defensive value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: I agree, and to clarify, I'm not trying to argue that Engel is the #11 defensive CFer. Just that his arm negates some of his defensive value. Very good point. This is why fans have a hard time believing guys who hit home runs could have negative overall value. Nowadays every aspect of a player is taken into account to judge overall value. I'd rate Engel a little higher than most defensively, but his arm isn't the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuagman Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Even though Preller is a scary wild card, he can’t be THAT crazy to spend all his money, while in a solid division, when his starting rotation is: Joey Lucchesi Robbie Erlin Bryan Mitchell Eric Lauer Luis Perdomo Yes they have a lot of solid SP prospects but they’re young with uncertainties. They don’t have a Kopech or Rodon, or even a Lopez. They need that money for SP. At least when he went crazy in 2015 (and fell flat on his face) with upton, Myers, kimbrel, they had Kennedy and Tyson Ross coming off solid years, got James shields and Andrew cashner was expected to still somebody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Very good point. This is why fans have a hard time believing guys who hit home runs could have negative overall value. Nowadays every aspect of a player is taken into account to judge overall value. I'd rate Engel a little higher than most defensively, but his arm isn't the best. For example, Harper's poor defensive rating last year essentially came down to four plays the modeling system decided that he "should have made." From his track record prior to that to a guy who's now doomed for 1B/DH due to four plays, one or two of which are probably balls that were lost in the light stands for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 FWIW, Jim Bowden also said today that he thinks if the Phillies get Harper, then it's between Sox and Padres for Manny (with Yankees looming on a short-term deal). He suggested that the Sox leaking contract info a while back might have upset Manny and Lozano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, Goober said: Yeah but how many were good ones? Seven? -10,917 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, fathom said: FWIW, Jim Bowden also said today that he thinks if the Phillies get Harper, then it's between Sox and Padres for Manny (with Yankees looming on a short-term deal). He suggested that the Sox leaking contract info a while back might have upset Manny and Lozano. That makes a lot of sense. All of Chicago media and anyone who has broken Sox news in the past were reporting 7/175 when Lozano came out and condemned it. That was pointed at the Sox. Edited February 16, 2019 by Orlando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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