TheTruth05 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: Bruce Levine with just an absolutely hilarious take on defending the Sox offer and ripping on Machado’s decision on The Score. Imagine thinking a guy who waited 7 years for Free Agency should still have to "bet on himself". This franchise is a joke and Levine is the mouthpiece for what the Sox truly think. Fuckin loser mentality they got at 35th and Shields. Edited February 20, 2019 by TheTruth05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Several people said that to me today at work. They assumed it was my dog or a grandparent. Yeah it was not a good day at the office for me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: Imagine thinking a guy who waited 7 years for Free Agency should still have to "bet on himself". This franchise is a joke and Levine is the mouthpiece for what the Sox truly think. Fuckin loser mentality they got at 35th and Shields. He still did bet on himself. For anyone who says he's lazy or won't work hard, he's got a year 5 opt out in there. If he bets that he'll have 4 all star appearances in the next 5 years, that's a great move - it comes after the CBA and strike/lockout, so he's got security through that, and a chance to go out and add maybe $50 million to his career earnings with the opt out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Special K said: The incentives were not easily attainable. He had to have 550 plate appearances in each of his last two seasons for each final $25 million year to kick in. The way the Sox play games, they would’ve sat him if they didn’t want to pay that money. No doubt. He took a guaranteed $50 million. Can’t blame the guy and I would advise my client the same. It’s $50 million dollars. This is wrong on so many levels. First, that would be an obvious grievance and would have the Sox pay a lot more money, Second isn't the complaint around here that JR is too loyal to a fault? He would not do that to an employee, he treats his employees very well. Again, I don't blame Machado for taking the guaranteed money, I would too. But this was all about who can claim the highest FA deal ever and who didn't want to known as the owner who did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 After having a night to sleep on this latest fiasco I don't feel any better this morning. The White Sox have no idea how disgusted I am and I'm sure they don't care! Sad to think we have to continue with this inept front office and ownership. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ptatc said: This is wrong on so many levels. First, that would be an obvious grievance and would have the Sox pay a lot more money, Second isn't the complaint around here that JR is too loyal to a fault? He would not do that to an employee, he treats his employees very well. Again, I don't blame Machado for taking the guaranteed money, I would too. But this was all about who can claim the highest FA deal ever and who didn't want to known as the owner who did it. Just like the organization, you completely fail to understand how wrong you are. In every single way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is wrong on so many levels. First, that would be an obvious grievance and would have the Sox pay a lot more money, Second isn't the complaint around here that JR is too loyal to a fault? He would not do that to an employee, he treats his employees very well. Again, I don't blame Machado for taking the guaranteed money, I would too. But this was all about who can claim the highest FA deal ever and who didn't want to known as the owner who did it. If you think this, then JR, Hahn and Levine have done their job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyAcosta41 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The clarity (relatively speaking) of the morning after can always hurt. Haven't read this thread yet today, so apologies if I'm repeating what other posters have already said. Yesterday was pain, disappointment, and anger. Today, for me, is major disappointment of an opportunity lost and recognition of what's in store for us (unless people look in the fricking mirror and change). 1 -- MONSTER OPPORTUNITY WASTED to land a 26 year old superstar in a position of need. All the big boys out of the game, Manny was there for the taking. Failing to land him made it clear that two things are in play: (a) dogmatic, crappy negotiators who can't close a deal when it needs to be closed; and (b) fundamental failure to understand what motivates most if not all star athletes (THEY get the sweetheart deal -- not you; YOU bear most if not all of the risk of failure to perform, while they have the comfort of the guaranty). Didn't land the superstar now and doesn't bode well for landing other top-tier talent when we have the tougher competition also at the table. 2 -- You don't do what the Sox did with signing Alonso and Jay (and arguably a few others as well) unless you are 100% certain that you are landing the prize that made these other players interesting as bait. The risk was extreme UNLESS the deal was done, or all but done. Because if you don't land the whale, then you have a huge mess on your hands. Two decent players and undoubtedly fine human beings who know they are not wanted. Teammates who know this about their fellow player as well. And a bigger than the Sox brass might believe contingent of fans who see these players as a botched and failed experiment -- reminding them of failure, plus taking time away from parts of the actual future that must be assessed. All will be forgiven by me if they land Harper. I know some were hoping for both whales, but that was always a pipedream for me. Perhaps they played Manny as they did because they believed it was truly the only way to possibly land both. And perhaps the plan has always been if they didn't land Manny, then they pay exactly what it takes to get Harper. And perhaps my wife will search out Alicia Vikander and convince her what a good time would be had by all in coming to live with us. Just not a lot on actual Planet Earth to think that such things will actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Saufley said: After having a night to sleep on this latest fiasco I don't feel any better this morning. The White Sox have no idea how disgusted I am and I'm sure they don't care! Sad to think we have to continue with this inept front office and ownership. Came here to post exactly this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is wrong on so many levels. First, that would be an obvious grievance and would have the Sox pay a lot more money, Second isn't the complaint around here that JR is too loyal to a fault? He would not do that to an employee, he treats his employees very well. Again, I don't blame Machado for taking the guaranteed money, I would too. But this was all about who can claim the highest FA deal ever and who didn't want to known as the owner who did it. A contract offer that isn’t agreed to is just another failure. Get back to me when they lock up one of these offers. Edited February 20, 2019 by Harper2Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Absolutely f***ing not. Those incentives only were attainable if the guy is still an all star at age 35. One injury and they're not. You're a trainer. How healthy do ballplayers typically stay in year 15 and 16 of their careers? A smart, intelligent GM would probably maneuver their way out of them. If RH wasn't the GM any more, or if Machado was traded, all the GM has to do is platoon the guy for 1/4 of the season to avoid those triggers. We are almost certainly going to do exactly that with Yonder Alonso's deal this year. He has an option for 2020 that vests with, hey, whaddya know, 550 plate appearances. They could not maneuver around the playing time easily. With the antagonist relationship the union and owners have, the union would be aall over that quickly. As I stated in another post, JR is referred to here as too loyal as a fault. If that's true, he wouldn't allow something like that to happen. As far as being a trainer, there are plenty of p,layers who can get 550 at bat at age 34 and 35 which would be the last years of the deal. He would be betting on himself a little but if he does it in just one of the years he would be right there. Again, I'm not saying I would take the Sox deal, I wouldn't. But the deal as not about the overall money. It was about an agent and an owner pissing about who can claim the highest free agent deal ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: A contract offer that isn’t agreed to is just another failure. Get back to me when they lock up one of these offers. This has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ptatc said: This has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. Move along. It’s hard to understand any of your comments. You just appear to be blindly defending the Sox front office and ownership. Why? I have no idea. They are failing miserably and have no clue how to handle free agent negotiations with star players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Special K said: If you think this, then JR, Hahn and Levine have done their job. No I don't. JR is unseasonably sticking to the ego trip of not signing the highest deal ever. It was flat our wrong to rob the team of this player. I think Hahn had his hands tied and did the best he could What the heck does Levine have to do with contract negotiations. He shouldn't be in the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: They could not maneuver around the playing time easily. With the antagonist relationship the union and owners have, the union would be aall over that quickly. As I stated in another post, JR is referred to here as too loyal as a fault. If that's true, he wouldn't allow something like that to happen. As far as being a trainer, there are plenty of p,layers who can get 550 at bat at age 34 and 35 which would be the last years of the deal. He would be betting on himself a little but if he does it in just one of the years he would be right there. Again, I'm not saying I would take the Sox deal, I wouldn't. But the deal as not about the overall money. It was about an agent and an owner pissing about who can claim the highest free agent deal ever. You and the other 2 remaining believers in this organization will literally get to watch it happen this year as Alonso has a vesting option after 550 plate appearances and he won't reach that number, and the union won't be able to say a thing about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Harper2Sox said: It’s hard to understand any of your comments. You just appear to be blindly defending the Sox front office and ownership. Why? I have no idea. They are failing miserably and have no clue how to handle free agent negotiations with star players. I'm not defending them. I said that it wasn't about the overall money. It's about JR not wanting to known as the owner who gave out the highest FA offer. At no point did I defend anyone except Hahn who I think had his hands tied by JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: They could not maneuver around the playing time easily. With the antagonist relationship the union and owners have, the union would be aall over that quickly. As I stated in another post, JR is referred to here as too loyal as a fault. If that's true, he wouldn't allow something like that to happen. As far as being a trainer, there are plenty of p,layers who can get 550 at bat at age 34 and 35 which would be the last years of the deal. He would be betting on himself a little but if he does it in just one of the years he would be right there. Again, I'm not saying I would take the Sox deal, I wouldn't. But the deal as not about the overall money. It was about an agent and an owner pissing about who can claim the highest free agent deal ever. Nope, you are making this too complex. It was about guaranteed money... period. You yourself admit you would take the guaranteed money as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ptatc said: No I don't. JR is unseasonably sticking to the ego trip of not signing the highest deal ever. It was flat our wrong to rob the team of this player. I think Hahn had his hands tied and did the best he could What the heck does Levine have to do with contract negotiations. He shouldn't be in the conversation. My comment was aimed at your belief the Sox couldn't avoid sending Machado out for 550 plate appearances - which most everyday starters might not achieve - in order to avoid paying him in the final 2 years of his contract. That's insane you think those final 2 years were guaranteed. Insane. Machado would've went for the deal if they were guaranteed. They weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: You and the other 2 remaining believers in this organization will literally get to watch it happen this year as Alonso has a vesting option after 550 plate appearances. Where is everyone getting the idea I believe in this organization. I've never once said they did the right thing here. I've said why they irrationally wouldnt do the deal while stating that Machado did the right thing because the JR screwed it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: You and the other 2 remaining believers in this organization will literally get to watch it happen this year as Alonso has a vesting option after 550 plate appearances and he won't reach that number, and the union won't be able to say a thing about it. Yep, this will happen. Just watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Harper2Sox said: Nope, you are making this too complex. It was about guaranteed money... period. You yourself admit you would take the guaranteed money as well. Right the guaranteed contract that JR wouldnt approve, because of ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, ptatc said: Right the guaranteed contract that JR wouldnt approve, because of ego. I think you are a little off. That record would have lasted for a couple of days at the most. And Stanton still got more than $300 million, although not as a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ptatc said: Right the guaranteed contract that JR wouldnt approve, because of ego. You have absolutely zero proof that this is about JR’s ego or his cheapness or any other specific reason. I could just as easily argue the “Sox are too cheap” narrative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: Right the guaranteed contract that JR wouldnt approve, because of ego. It's definitely because they're cheap. It's not like JR regularly hands out $100 million dollar contracts. Our biggest contract ever is $68 million. That is a JOKE this day and age. What major free agent is signing for anything under $200 million? Just tells you the Sox aren't even on the same planet when it comes to negotiating for big FAs. And no organization will ever compete consistently if they not in those talks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Yep, feel the same this morning. F*** them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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