Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Kenny and Hahn did try, I'm not going to deny that. Jerry/Kenny/Hahn all thought their offer was the best on the table and they would get Machado largely on their own terms. The lack of urgency to realize the Padres could leapfrog them did not occur, and they are left with a mess on their hands. Sticker price of 10/300 was known all along, and it shouldn't be a shock that it was met on deal day They tried, but in a manner that was incompetent. If that was because of limits from ownership - it was still incompetence on the part of the GM that let those limits stand. If it was because of their own incompetence, well, then they're incompetent. Blaming ownership limits to let Rick Hahn off the hook does not work here because a competent GM would deal with those limits for this player. No one should get away with blaming ownership and letting Rick Hahn (and yes, Kenny Williams) off the hook. This is their failure more than ownerships - what fraction I don't care, but it's Rick Hahn's failure first and foremost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 On the subject of opt outs, I like them, especially on long term deals. If a player decides to opt out half way through the deal, it means he performed well all those years. It benefits the team. Plus, the same team has first shot at the new contract anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 hours ago, G&T said: If that’s the case, then Machado isn’t saving this team anyway. He becomes a trade chip with a huge salary. Wrong. Not a huge salary. Boston paid that bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxman72 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldsox said: On the subject of opt outs, I like them, especially on long term deals. If a player decides to opt out half way through the deal, it means he performed well all those years. It benefits the team. Plus, the same team has first shot at the new contract anyway. Agree completely. I also believe that the contract the Sox offered Machado would have been a great extension offer or an "avoid the player opting out" offer. That is an offer that would be easier to sell a player that you have built faith, trust, and loyalty with inside your organization. Trying to sell a player to come to your organization with all those incentives and non guaranteed money has to be extremely difficult with a low success rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTC Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 TWO THINGS: - To those SoxTalk-ers that were adamant that signing Manny was (paraphrasing) "never going to happen" because "this is the White Sox we're talking about" and "what in their history makes you think they'll pull this off" ..... you were right. The rest of us owe you a big apology and you us a big fat I Told You So. - I've never been a member of the Reinsdorf Is A Cheap Bastard club. But after this I'm left with no other conclusion. If the difference ended up being 2 years and $50M, Keith Olberman pretty much summed it up: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: They tried, but in a manner that was incompetent. If that was because of limits from ownership - it was still incompetence on the part of the GM that let those limits stand. If it was because of their own incompetence, well, then they're incompetent. Blaming ownership limits to let Rick Hahn off the hook does not work here because a competent GM would deal with those limits for this player. No one should get away with blaming ownership and letting Rick Hahn (and yes, Kenny Williams) off the hook. This is their failure more than ownerships - what fraction I don't care, but it's Rick Hahn's failure first and foremost. I will agree with that. If a sticker price of 10/300 was not willing to be met prior to the offseason, then shame on the organization for being cheap when it counted. You cannot be a serious suitor if your top offer does not come close to what is being asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It’s amazing we’re all still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Now, Preller's problem is what to do with Ian Kinsler. I bet he calls Hahn and makes an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) When the Orioles do something like not invest internationally because they feel like it's exploitation that at least can be justified (and sadly that is probably not even on the radar for why the Sox haven't done anything big internationally until Robert). But not believing in opt outs? There's no justification for that whatsoever. Even if the Sox had matched the 10/300 or gone a bit above they would have rightfully lost out due to the lack of the opt out. I don't even know why Hahn/KW even bothered to try courting Machado if they knew they couldn't offer an opt out. Get with the times already. Edited February 20, 2019 by OmarComing25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, oldsox said: Now, Preller's problem is what to do with Ian Kinsler. I bet he calls Hahn and makes an offer. The possibilities are terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, oldsox said: Now, Preller's problem is what to do with Ian Kinsler. I bet he calls Hahn and makes an offer. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said: When the Orioles do something like not invest internationally because they feel like it's exploitation that at least can be justified (and sadly that is probably not even on the radar for why the Sox haven't done anything big internationally until Robert). But not believing in opt outs? There's no justification for that whatsoever. Even if the Sox had matched the 10/300 or gone a bit above they would have rightfully lost out due to the lack of the opt out. I don't even know why Hahn/KW even bothered to try courting Machado if they knew they couldn't offer an opt out. Get with the times already. Yep, with the CBA in limbo, there's no way any significant free agent won't request an opt-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, oldsox said: Now, Preller's problem is what to do with Ian Kinsler. I bet he calls Hahn and makes an offer. He cited Kinsler's veteran presence as a reason why they thought Machado would be a good fit in their clubhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Padres' down-the-road vision trumps the White Sox's: Well, maybe it was just a matter of cold, hard cash, but the White Sox, like the Padres, had to sell Machado on the future more than the present. If that was a factor, Machado chose the team with a slightly better current roster and the much deeper farm system. On the other hand, he also chose the team in the tougher division. Would the White Sox be in play for Harper? Most speculate that they can't envision Jerry Reinsdorf going $300 million-plus for Harper. But he does have Machado's brother-in-law Yonder Alonso on the team. http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26034151/possible-ripple-effects-machado-deal-bryce-baseball?platform=amp We’re is the laughing stock of the baseball universe times infinity now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Yep, with the CBA in limbo, there's no way any significant free agent won't request an opt-out. 5 years is not a bad time at all for the opt out from the player's side. The strike/lockout is 3 years from now, so a 3 year opt out is idiotic for the player because they could opt out into the strike. A 4 year opt out is ok, but you also have no record of how free agency has responded to the new CBA in a normal offseason. 5 years from now, there's a full year's record of contracts out there - if the market is still depressed like it is now you stay in the deal, if the market has recovered to 2015 levels you take the opt out and make another $50 million in your career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'm sure the sentiment is still shared here but I feel no better the morning after. Still pissed as hell and I don't expect the team to give a shit. Just hopelessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 poor Yonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, fathom said: poor Yonder "But hey, that doesn't happen as much as people think it happens." Who out there thinks this happens often? lol Edited February 20, 2019 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It's like this organization is purposefully trying to piss people off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 35 minutes ago, oldsox said: Wrong. Not a huge salary. Boston paid that bonus. I think you misread my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, fathom said: poor Yonder Didn't his sister's family just end up with $300M in guaranteed money? He should be happy. I would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, hi8is said: Padres' down-the-road vision trumps the White Sox's: Well, maybe it was just a matter of cold, hard cash, but the White Sox, like the Padres, had to sell Machado on the future more than the present. If that was a factor, Machado chose the team with a slightly better current roster and the much deeper farm system. On the other hand, he also chose the team in the tougher division. Would the White Sox be in play for Harper? Most speculate that they can't envision Jerry Reinsdorf going $300 million-plus for Harper. But he does have Machado's brother-in-law Yonder Alonso on the team. http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26034151/possible-ripple-effects-machado-deal-bryce-baseball?platform=amp We’re is the laughing stock of the baseball universe times infinity now. Well, we got mentioned by ESPN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, fathom said: It's like this organization is purposefully trying to piss people off Incompetence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, fathom said: It's like this organization is purposefully trying to piss people off I don't blame the players at all. FO created the circus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 "modestly surprised" smh you incompetent clowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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