Machado signs with Padres 10/300

[Jake]

Yeah the main solace you can take looking at what's going on over in San Diego is how bad all of Preller's early moves were. Time will tell if those end up being an aberration or indicative of a simply bad GM.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

He made some fuck ups but bounced back. We are still waiting for Rick to bounce back after his screwups. The biggest change will be the Pads fans perception of the team/excitement  and the media attention. 

On January 6, 2012, the Padres traded Rizzo and right-handed starting pitcher Zach Cates to the Chicago Cubs in exchange for right-handed starting pitcher Andrew Cashner and outfielder Kyung-Min Na. The deal was negotiated by Jed Hoyer, the Cubs' general manager.

AJ Preller was nowhere in sight, but probably in the Caribbean or Venezuela on a scouting trip for the Rangers.

From the post you were responding to...how soon we forget how Rizzo ended up on the Cubs, those "baseball insider" shenanigans with Hoyer eventually ending up in the Cubs' front office.   No suspicions there.

Edited February 27, 2019 by caulfield12

[Buehrle>Wood]

16 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Preller has done a great job defrauding teams and stealing their prospects but where does all this confidence in his FA signings come from? He's made one boneheaded move after another.

The fact he signed Machado bodes extremely well for us.

Preller has been an awful GM, no denying that other than stemming from delusion because he got us twice.

Anyways, Sports Illustrated reporting on the Machado signing came to be. It was because their owner saw the $175 million dollar offer on TV, thought it was terribly lower than what it should be, and he thought he should get personally involved.

Lol the 175 million dollar report than the White Sox so badly wanted out there cost them Machado.

[skooch]

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

On January 6, 2012, the Padres traded Rizzo and right-handed starting pitcher Zach Cates to the Chicago Cubs in exchange for right-handed starting pitcher Andrew Cashner and outfielder Kyung-Min Na. The deal was negotiated by Jed Hoyer, the Cubs' general manager.

AJ Preller was nowhere in sight, but probably in the Caribbean or Venezuela on a scouting trip for the Rangers.

From the post you were responding to...how soon we forget how Rizzo ended up on the Cubs, those "baseball insider" shenanigans with Hoyer eventually ending up in the Cubs' front office.   No suspicions there.

Which shenanigans were those? Rizzo went to the Cubs in Jan 2012 and according to Wikipedia:

"On October 26, 2011, the Chicago Cubs announced that Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod had joined the club."

What am I missing? Did he really negotiate a trade and then put it on hold for 3 months and somehow get the Padres GM to rubber-stamp the trade?

Edited February 27, 2019 by skooch

[caulfield12]

54 minutes ago, skooch said:

Which shenanigans were those? Rizzo went to the Cubs in Jan 2012 and according to Wikipedia:

"On October 26, 2011, the Chicago Cubs announced that Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod had joined the club."

What am I missing? Did he really negotiate a trade and then put it on hold for 3 months and somehow get the Padres GM to rubber-stamp the trade?

It was officially Josh Byrnes who got taken, not Preller.

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/2/15/14593912/anthony-rizzo-andrew-cashner-cubs-padres-trade-retrospective

Epstein still saw the player he drafted for Boston in the sixth round of the 2007 draft. In addition, new GM Jed Hoyer acquired Rizzo himself while in San Diego, so both executives were quite familiar with him. The situation was ripe for the Cubs braintrust to reunite with Rizzo. Unlike the Padres, Epstein and Hoyer knew enough not to put much weight into 153 PA from a 21-year-old who was probably called up too soon anyway. The Cubs trusted their scouting and player development.

[skooch]

1 hour ago, skooch said:

how soon we forget how Rizzo ended up on the Cubs, those "baseball insider" shenanigans with Hoyer eventually ending up in the Cubs' front office.   No suspicions there.

I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the "shenanigans". Sounds to me like Hoyer really liked Rizzo and knew what Padre ownership thought of him and so he made a play for a player with whom he had a long history. I don't see anything untoward here.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, skooch said:

I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the "shenanigans". Sounds to me like Hoyer really liked Rizzo and knew what Padre ownership thought of him and so he made a play for a player with whom he had a long history. I don't see anything untoward here.

Except Hoyer was working for the Padres

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, skooch said:

I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the "shenanigans". Sounds to me like Hoyer really liked Rizzo and knew what Padre ownership thought of him and so he made a play for a player with whom he had a long history. I don't see anything untoward here.

Hoyer knew a lot more about Rizzo than Byrnes, just like Preller with Tatis (or Paddy didn’t advocate for keeping him convincingly enough with Hahn/KW.)

Edited February 27, 2019 by caulfield12

[skooch]

 

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Except Hoyer was working for the Padres

According to the above, Hoyer moved to the cubs in Oct 2011 and traded for Rizzo in Jan 2012.

 

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Hoyer knew a lot more about Rizzo than Byrnes, just like Preller with Tatis (or Paddy didn’t advocate for keeping him convincingly enough with Hahn/KW.)

So he used his professional knowledge  and experience to make a savvy trade? 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Hoyer knew a lot more about Rizzo than Byrnes, just like Preller with Tatis (or Paddy didn’t advocate for keeping him convincingly enough with Hahn/KW.)

Why do you keep saying this? Preller didnt know a lot more about tatis. He could have signed him for next to nothing.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why do you keep saying this? Preller didnt know a lot more about tatis. He could have signed him for next to nothing.

If he didn’t, how did he get pinpointed out of 300+ players in their system?  Remember, we were taking on money and also included Erik Johnson.

Keith Law tipped off them to get back at KW after his his time in Toronto which culminated in sour aftertaste of the Wells/Sirotka deal?

Edited February 27, 2019 by caulfield12

[TomPickle]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If he didn’t, how did he get pinpointed out of 300+ players in their system?  Remember, we were taking on money and also included Erik Johnson.

Keith Law tipped off them to get back at KW after his his time in Toronto which culminated in sour aftertaste of the Wells/Sirotka deal?

I don't know just how baseless this speculation is, but I will bite and pretend it's true for just a second.

Why is Keith Law a better evaluator of talent than everyone in the White Sox organization?

[caulfield12]

Just now, TomPickle said:

I don't know just how baseless this speculation is, but I will bite and pretend it's true for just a second.

Why is Keith Law a better evaluator of talent than everyone in the White Sox organization?

What proof do we have that the Sox are better...especially since Sale, Eaton and Q?

[skooch]

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If he didn’t, how did he get pinpointed out of 300+ players in their system?  

Pedigree?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

51 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If he didn’t, how did he get pinpointed out of 300+ players in their system?  Remember, we were taking on money and also included Erik Johnson.

Keith Law tipped off them to get back at KW after his his time in Toronto which culminated in sour aftertaste of the Wells/Sirotka deal?

Caufield, please stop pushing this nonsensical BS when it comes to Tatis.

I have corrected you on this 100 times, but you keep singing the praises of the genius that is AJ Preller which is just laughable. 

Here are the facts:

Fernando Tatis Jr was signed by the Chicago White Sox on July 2nd, 2015. He was the 27! ranked IFA out of 30. The White Sox signed him for $825,000. The irony is, Paddy is credited with the signing. ANYONE could have had Tatis, including Preller. He passed on him and didn't want to offer him 1 million. On June 4th, of 2016, without Tatis playing a single professional game for the White Sox, he was traded to the Padres. He was a wild card ticket for the Padres. If they thought he was a top elite prospect they would have signed him 8 months earlier for 1 million dollars. There's nothing they could have possibly seen with him not playing... that would lean to them trading for him. The White Sox actually gave the 30 ranked player that year (Franklin Reyes) 1.5 million to sign with them. Tatis was TINY, I will say that.

[southsider2k5]

51 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

I don't know just how baseless this speculation is, but I will bite and pretend it's true for just a second.

Why is Keith Law a better evaluator of talent than everyone in the White Sox organization?

[Alice Falling into Wonderland]

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Caufield, please stop pushing this nonsensical BS when it comes to Tatis.

I have corrected you on this 100 times, but you keep singing the praises of the genius that is AJ Preller which is just laughable. 

Here are the facts:

Fernando Tatis Jr was signed by the Chicago White Sox on July 2nd, 2015. He was the 27! ranked IFA out of 30. The White Sox signed him for $825,000. The irony is, Paddy is credited with the signing. ANYONE could have had Tatis, including Preller. He passed on him and didn't want to offer him 1 million. On June 4th, of 2016, without Tatis playing a single professional game for the White Sox, he was traded to the Padres. He was a wild card ticket for the Padres. If they thought he was a top elite prospect they would have signed him 8 months earlier for 1 million dollars. There's nothing they could have possibly seen with him not playing... that would lean to them trading for him. The White Sox actually gave the 30 ranked player that year (Franklin Reyes) 1.5 million to sign with them. Tatis was TINY, I will say that.

So, the Padres were just lucky to build the undisputed #1 farm system in the game, and just happened to pick the kid who can run well, hit for power and field SS of all positions well....and we’re basically just unlucky, right?  Just like the Cubs identifying and signing Gleyber Torres and Jimenez in the same signing class was simply the result of good fortune and deep pockets?

Preller did the same exact thing with the Rangers, especially on the LatAm side.  They were perennial contenders until recently when they got old.

Most of the FA signings/trades that Preller made in the 2014-15 actually had decent years, other than Shields and Kemp (compare to Sox FA signings since 2011.)

 

PS:  A player doesn’t have to play for him to be scouted well on practice fields or in AZ.  Once upon a time, the Dodgers had an embarrassment of outfield riches and tried to hide Roberto Clemente by deliberately not playing him in Montreal (AAA)...didnt work, the Pirates and everyone in baseball still found out about him.  Scouts talk...just one BP session or back fields practice game, whatever, can easily catch their eye.

[Buehrle>Wood]

AJ Preller is an awful GM who got us twice. Accept this and move on and stop the obsession. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

So, the Padres were just lucky to build the undisputed #1 farm system in the game, and just happened to pick the kid who can run well, hit for power and field SS of all positions well....and we’re basically just unlucky, right?  Just like the Cubs identifying and signing Gleyber Torres and Jimenez in the same signing class was simply the result of good fortune and deep pockets?

Preller did the same exact thing with the Rangers, especially on the LatAm side.  They were perennial contenders until recently when they got old.

Most of the FA signings/trades that Preller made in the 2014-15 actually had decent years, other than Shields and Kemp (compare to Sox FA signings since 2011.)

 

PS:  A player doesn’t have to play for him to be scouted well on practice fields or in AZ.  Once upon a time, the Dodgers had an embarrassment of outfield riches and tried to hide Roberto Clemente by deliberately not playing him in Montreal (AAA)...didnt work, the Pirates and everyone in baseball still found out about him.  Scouts talk...just one BP session or back fields practice game, whatever, can easily catch their eye.

My goodness - what are you rambling about? 

Preller didn't think Tatis was some superstar in the making - if he did, he would have signed him for 1 million or 900k. That's all it cost. It's not as if Preller was secretly scouting him during the practices and games that didn't take place. 

Yes, so Preller was at White Sox Dominican training facility scouting the White Sox signees. You can't make this shit up. .

I've already asked you to point to all these Latin American stars that Preller has signed, but none of them exist so you were unable to do it. 

By the way; the Padres prospect rankings, and signing of guys like Urias, means absolutely nothing in this situation. You bring it up to prove your point that Preller must have known something when in fact, Preller had a chance to sign him for peanuts and didn't. Preller got lucky. EOS.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[hi8is]

Manny, is that you?

[Waylo Kneehigh]

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

So, the Padres were just lucky to build the undisputed #1 farm system in the game, and just happened to pick the kid who can run well, hit for power and field SS of all positions well....and we’re basically just unlucky, right?  Just like the Cubs identifying and signing Gleyber Torres and Jimenez in the same signing class was simply the result of good fortune and deep pockets?

Preller did the same exact thing with the Rangers, especially on the LatAm side.  They were perennial contenders until recently when they got old.

Most of the FA signings/trades that Preller made in the 2014-15 actually had decent years, other than Shields and Kemp (compare to Sox FA signings since 2011.)

 

PS:  A player doesn’t have to play for him to be scouted well on practice fields or in AZ.  Once upon a time, the Dodgers had an embarrassment of outfield riches and tried to hide Roberto Clemente by deliberately not playing him in Montreal (AAA)...didnt work, the Pirates and everyone in baseball still found out about him.  Scouts talk...just one BP session or back fields practice game, whatever, can easily catch their eye.

https://www.southsidesox.com/2019/2/27/18243353/aj-preller-manny-machado-padres-stay-classy-san-diego

 

Preller can die of gonorrhea and rot in hell

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

My goodness - what are you rambling about? 

Preller didn't think Tatis was some superstar in the making - if he did, he would have signed him for 1 million or 900k. That's all it cost. It's not as if Preller was secretly scouting him during the practices and games that didn't take place. 

Yes, so Preller was at White Sox Dominican training facility scouting the White Sox signees. You can't make this shit up. .

I've already asked you to point to all these Latin American stars that Preller has signed, but none of them exist so you were unable to do it. 

By the way; the Padres prospect rankings, and signing of guys like Urias, means absolutely nothing in this situation. You bring it up to prove your point that Preller must have known something when in fact, Preller had a chance to sign him for peanuts and didn't. Preller got lucky. EOS.

His history with the Rangers is well-documented.

For some reason, other organizations are able to outwork us...you explain it then.

I'm not surprised about anything with our Dominican operations since WilderGate.  We probably had a mole or spy reporting out to other teams, or a rogue buscone who wanted to get back at the Sox, lol.

Paddy, for being this supposed huge asset, has been responsible for Tatis and Adolfo, and that's pretty much the full extent of it for Top 15 prospects the past decade out of LA. Or you could credit him for Robert if you want (but not blowing way past that budget to sign a boatload like SD.)  A couple of other kids on the periphery of bring legit prospects, but still 3-4 seasons away at a minimum.

Edited February 28, 2019 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

We SHOULD have the greatest collection of Latin American talent the game has ever seen since the 1950's/60's Dodgers and Pirates or the Dodgers of Mike Brito (he with the hat and radar gun behind home plate) in the 70's and 80's/early 90's.

Instead, we have Yolmer Sanchez as the best player produced in the last five years, a "lite" version of Eduardo Escobar, who led the LA pipeline (if that's the right word for it) the previous five years and was dumped for Liriano in 2012.

 

1. Manny Machado

2. Fernando Tatis, Jr.

 

3. Eloy Jimenez

4. Yoan Moncada

5. Carlos Rodon (family is all of Cuban descent, 2nd generation)

6. Lopez

7. Luis Robert (positions #5-7 are really interchangeable)

8. Luis Basabe

9. Micker Adolfo

10. Luis Gonzalez (family is originally from Mexico, grew up in Tucson)

That doesn't even count Seby Zavala, Jose Ruiz, Bernardo Flores, Luis Curbelo, Laz Rivera and Johan Cruz.

It also doesn't count Omar Narvaez, who was by some measures the 4th best offensive catcher in MLB last year and had four remaining years of control.  We can throw Leury Garcia in there as well, haha.

 

There's just no way all ten of those guys couldn't lead this organization to the playoffs again, if not the World Series.

But we're the White Sox, so of course we get Dayan Viciedo (the Sox version of Jorge Soler) and Avi Garcia instead of superstars.

We can't manage to sign Machado, and we can't manage to hold onto Tatis (when we should have folded in May/June 2016 in the first place, but "fought courageously on because of JR and KW" and probably Konerko/Dye/Thome/AJ selling Hahn on the idea they had enough horses to go the distance that year.)

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by caulfield12

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We SHOULD have the greatest collection of Latin American talent the game has ever seen since the 1950's/60's Dodgers and Pirates or the Dodgers of Mike Brito (he with the hat and radar gun behind home plate) in the 70's and 80's/early 90's.

Instead, we have Yolmer Sanchez as the best player produced in the last five years, a "lite" version of Eduardo Escobar, who led the LA pipeline (if that's the right word for it) the previous five years and was dumped for Liriano in 2012.

 

1. Manny Machado

2. Fernando Tatis, Jr.

 

3. Eloy Jimenez

4. Yoan Moncada

5. Carlos Rodon (family is all of Cuban descent, 2nd generation)

6. Lopez

7. Luis Robert (positions #5-7 are really interchangeable)

8. Luis Basabe

9. Micker Adolfo

10. Luis Gonzalez (family is originally from Mexico, grew up in Tucson)

That doesn't even count Seby Zavala, Jose Ruiz, Bernardo Flores, Luis Curbelo, Laz Rivera and Johan Cruz.

It also doesn't count Omar Narvaez, who was by some measures the 4th best offensive catcher in MLB last year and had four remaining years of control.  We can throw Leury Garcia in there as well, haha.

 

There's just no way all ten of those guys couldn't lead this organization to the playoffs again, if not the World Series.

But we're the White Sox, so of course we get Dayan Viciedo (the Sox version of Jorge Soler) and Avi Garcia instead of superstars.

We can't manage to sign Machado, and we can't manage to hold onto Tatis (when we should have folded in May/June 2016 in the first place, but "fought courageously on because of JR and KW" and probably Konerko/Dye/Thome/AJ selling Hahn on the idea they had enough horses to go the distance that year.)

 

 

Manny Machado is from southern Florida. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Manny Machado is from southern Florida. 

Sure, but he plays for the Dominican Republic in the WBC.

It's like saying John Jay is not Hispanic because of his name.   It's also the reason we signed or traded for half of the Latin American veterans (Nova, Colome, Herrera...kept Castillo, who he played with in Baltimore, over two younger/cheaper guys) that were available on the market.