SonofaRoache Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 When thinking about this whole situation, I'm starting to think that a JR ran team finally gets it. Teams acquiring star players either pay up, are all time great organizations, are in a great destination with good fans, or kids the players asked. We are in kiss the player asses mode. If I were in Machado's shoes and a job offer was made to me to love in Chicago, NYC, LA, Austin, San Diego, or Detroit. I would be more likely to pick Detroit if the offer paid significantly more money. If my good friends were moving to Detroit near me as well, that would probably seal the deal. Having friends there would make me so much more comfortable and the experience a lot more enjoyable than if I were by myself. The Sox are Detroit in this race, so money is a good selling point, but having Machado's friends here does mean a lot. This is a once in a generation opportunity for us to sign a star with 4 to 6 wins. You do what it takes. Good job finally, White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: But then we were leading the AL Central on May 6th and because we hadn’t added a better option before the season, we spent $30-35 million more on Shields and traded away Tatis, Jr. (who’s worth how much surplus value?) $3 million led to a potential $100 million hole. All self induced. Heck, if we had Tatis, there’s a possibility we could get away with not spending $300 million on Machado. So make that $400 million. Ahhhh. Good point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Not really. I just think you're b****ing about nothing. $4M is nothing. Jon Jay is likely going to be the best OF the Sox have in their opening day lineup. We have no CF of consequence on the roster that is a future piece, and we have no CF prospect of consequence that will be ready until late 2019 (being generous here). Adam Engel sucks. He's a 4th OF if everything works out. I have no problem with him Jay and Engel platooning, or Engel going back to Charlotte. This improves the team (marginally) for 2019, and gives Manny another one of his boys to play with in what is likely a losing season in 2019. I see absolutely zero reason to be upset about this, but far from shocked that you found a way. Like I originally posted, $4 million is nothing, $9 million is nothing, but eventually it adds up to something if this turns out to be a fail. We don't know if it will be a fail. In fact, I assume they have a better idea than any of us that is what was required and it is going to work. If they are just throwing shit against the wall,and it doesn't work, it's embarrassing. He would probably appreciate it just as much if you just gave HIM the $13 million, and at least if he said no you wouldn't be stuck paying more to suck just as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: I'll simplify for those catching up on this thread. The Sox signed Jay to a ONE YEAR, $4mm deal. He doesn't strikeout and has OBP better than 90% of the team. He can spell each of the guys in the OF as well as be a late inning replacement for Palka in almost every game. There are two sides of the argument here from what I can tell. Those who are always angry. Those who aren't. Also apparently now we have economic majors on the board who are arguing about JR's pocketbook and how this $4mm affects his ability to spend $4mm in 2025. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Man, you sure are going to great lengths to defend the signing of Jon Jay even if Machado doesn't come along. Keep in mind the last time Jon Jay put up at least a 2.0 fWAR was 2012. Jay will cost us 4 million while taking at bats from Engel and Delmonico for one year. Not really that big of a deal. I also remember you didn't like the idea of trading for Manny to ensure he would have comfort with us to re-sign. Had we traded Giolito for him, and signed yonder and Jay, this would be a closed case. At this point, I'd still trade Giolito for him for a shot at a re-sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: I'll simplify for those catching up on this thread. The Sox signed Jay to a ONE YEAR, $4mm deal. He doesn't strikeout and has OBP better than 90% of the team. He can spell each of the guys in the OF as well as be a late inning replacement for Palka in almost every game. There are two sides of the argument here from what I can tell. Those who are always angry. Those who aren't. Also apparently now we have economic majors on the board who are arguing about JR's pocketbook and how this $4mm affects his ability to spend $4mm in 2025. Carry on. This is all fine and dandy.... but if the it comes out that Manny signed with the Phillies and they outbid the Sox by 20 million, people are going to lose their minds. It is just money until you don't have enough. You know what some clubs would give to be able to clear $13,000,000 off their payroll? I think it is perfectly reasonable to question and discuss why the Sox have spent $62,000,000 since the winter meetings on Stop-Gap types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sin city sox fan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 We could use a stopgap measure in the outfield until our best prospects are ready for the big show. Signing any outfielder to a multi year deal would have been foolish as it would have blocked top prospects. I'm not sure there is anyone else out there better than John Jay that we could have gotten on a one year deal (especially at only $4 million). This is a good gamble......returns even money at worst but could produce a jackpot if we end up landing Manny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Like I originally posted, $4 million is nothing, $9 million is nothing, but eventually it adds up to something if this turns out to be a fail. We don't know if it will be a fail. In fact, I assume they have a better idea than any of us that is what was required and it is going to work. If they are just throwing shit against the wall,and it doesn't work, it's embarrassing. He would probably appreciate it just as much if you just gave HIM the $13 million, and at least if he said no you wouldn't be stuck paying more to suck just as much. Let's see how it shakes out. I think we're getting MM, but even if we don't, I don't think this team is in any worse scenario than we were yesterday at this time. Engel getting less at bats is a win. We got one of the best 2 or 3 CF options on the FA market for nothing on a short term commitment. I personally don't think those $4M (or Alonso's $9M) were going to be set aside directly for future spending. I also would be surprised if Alonso is on the roster June 1st if Machado does not sign here. In fact, I think he's likely traded before the season if that is the case to open DH up for Palka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, GREEDY said: This is all fine and dandy.... but if the it comes out that Manny signed with the Phillies and they outbid the Sox by 20 million, people are going to lose their minds. It is just money until you don't have enough. You know what some clubs would give to be able to clear $13,000,000 off their payroll? I think it is perfectly reasonable to question and discuss why the Sox have spent $62,000,000 since the winter meetings on Stop-Gap types. Setting aside that reports have the Sox being the highest bidder to date, this is wrong. The Sox have devised a budget for the years and dollars they would give to Machado. That is a particular budget which was planned around him, independent of the rest of the roster. They would not pass him up because they are $13 mil "short" for one season. They cover their big league payroll before a single ticket is sold. Also, they aren't going to be at their payroll limit next year, anyway. They will have more big money to spend next offseason. The $13 mil will be a drop in the bucket this year. Also, since the suspected bidding for Machado is currently about $80 mil less than most were expecting, I think the Sox have plenty of room to go before they reach whatever the absolute limit was they set for Machado. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I just hope a lot of this board does not run their own family run business. The economics and financials background in me is going crazy wanting to respond to too many posts. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said: I just hope a lot of this board does not run their own family run business. The economics and financials background in me is going crazy wanting to respond to too many posts. Let's see it. -Self Run, Self Made, "Family run business" here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, GREEDY said: Yikes. Well, if you don't subscribe to that line of thinking, you are likely to be pretty disappointed in Madrigal. A player needs a lofty Slugging %, in order to have a high OPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: I just hope a lot of this board does not run their own family run business. The economics and financials background in me is going crazy wanting to respond to too many posts. either do it or don't we all got places to be. John Jay is a .5 WAR player at best. He got what he's worth. I'm not sure in any non-Manny offseason pushing a pre-arb guy like Engel or Delmonico, guys already on the 40 man (as shitty as they are) that would be a smart move in what is ostensibly still a tank year. Of course given the bullpen signings maybe it's not a tank year anymore. Who the fuck knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 This thread is absolute insanity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Dick Allen said: He's an aging guy who is spending less and less time in CF, with no pop. If it doesn't bring Machado, it's a ridiculous signing. Who cares ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, beautox said: If we land Manny I could see this line up could see a lineup like this 2B Moncada# CF Jay* 3B Machado DH Abreu 1B Alonso* RF Jimenez LF Palka* C Castillo SS Anderson Precisely. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: This thread is absolute insanity. gotta fill the void with something. otherwise just gotta stare out the window and wait till spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If you had told me in October that a thread about John Jay would have made 22 pages, I would have laughed at you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: either do it or don't we all got places to be. John Jay is a .5 WAR player at best. He got what he's worth. I'm not sure in any non-Manny offseason pushing a pre-arb guy like Engel or Delmonico, guys already on the 40 man (as shitty as they are) that would be a smart move in what is ostensibly still a tank year. Of course given the bullpen signings maybe it's not a tank year anymore. Who the fuck knows. Thank you. Literally the reason we can go after Manny was because the team is supposed to be able to easily recreate a Jon Jay And Alonso production internally. If we are actually arguing that signing 1 year 30+ yo vets is this objective good independent of it helping acquire Machado I just need to point you to 2 years ago. Hahn does not get the benefit of the doubt that signing several 1 year old position player vets is a good thing. This better darn well be only due to Machado and nothing else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lillian said: Well, if you don't subscribe to that line of thinking, you are likely to be pretty disappointed in Madrigal. A player needs a lofty Slugging %, in order to have a high OPS. You said "Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP" I said "Yikes" You tell me I'll be disappointed in Madrigal? What the what? Seriously, OPS is a relevant statistic for all players. Please reconsider this very poor taek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, GREEDY said: Let's see it. -Self Run, Self Made, "Family run business" here maybe another day.. to get into cash flows of a billionaire on a Tuesday in January sounds exhausting. Also rarely does anybody win an argument on the internet. I'm in the camp of liking the jay signing, and generally thinking the money spent on these two year contracts mean very little to the sox ability to spend in the future. it is much more likely that their ability to spend will be capped by a luxury tax in the future than this $13mm holding them back from increasing from $150 to $163mm in 2023. On the flip side, I don't think any of these two year signings mean much because it's unlikely they improve our team to a level that gets us to the playoffs. So yes, it is kind of "wasted" money. But that money isn't going into a rainy day fund anyways, its likely being distributed out of the profits of the year to JR's 3 yacht fund. So maybe, call me crazy, the sox just want to be closer to an 80 win team and build a culture of winning with a young team instead of being a 100 loss team year after year. At a certain point you have to take steps forward to build a better team or you lose your fan base entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, GREEDY said: You said "Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP" I said "Yikes" You tell me I'll be disappointed in Madrigal? What the what? Seriously, OPS is a relevant statistic for all players. Please reconsider this very poor taek. steamer projects a .316 OBP. I'm dying here fam. Imagine trying to defend a player on a .316 OBP. Of course when the Sox had a team OBP of .302 in 2018 maybe in the land of the blind the .316 guy is a fucking king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: steamer projects a .316 OBP. I'm dying here fam. Imagine trying to defend a player on a .316 OBP. Of course when the Sox had a team OBP of .302 in 2018 maybe in the land of the blind the .316 guy is a fucking king. Imagine getting so worked up over $4 mil. Imagine raging about a player based on a steamer projection. Imagine anything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Roughneck said: Imagine getting so worked up over $4 mil. Imagine raging about a player based on a steamer projection. Imagine anything. What's Engel's Steamer projection? I'm guessing .316 blows it out the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, TheTruth05 said: What's Engel's Steamer projection? I'm guessing .316 blows it out the water. .278 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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