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Sox Sign Jon Jay; 1 year/$4 mil, Charlie Tilson DFA'd


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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I do like how I called it "Feel good" spending and you described this a "Feely" stuff :)

We were entering a year, though, where with the exception of Palka and Jose Rondon I felt like all of our "give them mlb time" players had hit their ceiling and I was not sad to see time be reallocated prior to the next wave. If these players truly support more longterm players, great.

However, these may also be some bones thrown to Renteria. If he sucks with some vets added and bullpen pieces, then it gives more rational for judgment time.

Rondon I'm actually feeling a bit of a pinch that they may have something there and he may not get a healthy opportunity unless he adds outfield versatility to his INF versatility. 

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think if you took the "Here's an outside path to 82 wins next season"  threads from last month and told them that we've added $40 million to our payroll by adding Colome, Herrera, Jay, Nova, Alonso, and that catcher who isn't even worth remembering, while Subtracting Narvaez and Davidson, the people who thought we had an outside shot to compete in 2019 would spit on you. Right now, I think we've taken a 62 win team and left it in the low 60's. At least we still get to add Eloy in, that'll be a legit boost if he can stay healthy.

I will bet my entire years salary we win more than 62 games this year.

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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. 

Who would you have played in CF instead?  

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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. 

Add up for 1 year, in what will be a lost year anyway if they don't land Manny.

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Just now, Dick Allen said:

Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. 

No one thinks he was a nice option. But he is a better option than Engel/L Garcia.

What impact would this "gamble" of 4 mill have? If MM does not sign we continue with the rebuild and Jay is off the roster at season's end.

If he gets us MM then we celebrate.

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2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who would you have played in CF instead?  

Leury, Engel...not John Jay. How come you never mentioned Jay until last night if he is such a good fit? 

He isn't very good. We all know why he is a White Sox. If Manny Machado was not a potential signing, there is zero chance they would bring this guy in. 

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9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

2nd half of last year - Adam Engel .668 OPS, Jon Jay .619. He shoulda tried hitting without the bag, it didn't work. 

Grabbing a little tiny sample to suit your needs. Over time we have seen Jay have some bat to ball skills at the MLB level. If he's done-done, then fine, we'll risk little in it. Engel meanwhile not only hasnt done it at MLB level, I cant even really say i saw him do that MiLB level. In the minors Engel still had his monster K rates + no power schtick going on.

Edited by Princess Dye
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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Add up....to what, exactly? They are one year deals (I know Alonso has the option but they can control if if vests). They aren’t winning anything in 2019, with or without Machado. So what are these deals hurting long term?

Because it's money that has already been spent and cannot be spent when they need it. Again, if Machado is a White Sox, it's brilliant. If he isn't, it's ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Correct. So what’s the problem. Explain to us how Jon Jay for one season, even if they don’t get Manny Machado, hurts this team long term? Because Garcia and Engel aren’t getting as many AB’s?!?

Because it is money and playing time you can't give to someone more useful. 

Why didn't the White Sox just sign a bunch of one year free agents last year to try to win 80 games? Jay in CF actually may wind up an overall downgrade from Engel, and I am about as sick of watching Adam Engel try to hit as anyone. Now you squeeze out another OF, which is fine if they get Machado. But if they don't, it's dumb. 

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I don't know, one thing I wanted to see when we started trying to sign productive free agents again is that the front office had a better eye. If we miss out on machado and these players are bad then I will once again be wondering if we have a front office capable of using every avenue to build a winning roster.

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

When they need it when? 

You have NO IDEA what their payroll structure will look like. None. Clearly they are a finalist for Manny Machado, a guy in line for one of the largest contacts in MLB history. The notion the Sox would be players for him or Bryce a year ago was laughable. 

You’re getting upset because you want to get upset. It’s nothing.

I know I don't. What I do know is if you spend $4 million or $9 million now and not put it in the bank, when you are looking to add payroll next year, your bank account won't have that $13 million you spent . 

I am not upset at all as long as this works. If it doesn't work, it's foolish. They have already spent $13 million on Manny's friends. 

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8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Leury, Engel...not John Jay. How come you never mentioned Jay until last night if he is such a good fit? 

He isn't very good. We all know why he is a White Sox. If Manny Machado was not a potential signing, there is zero chance they would bring this guy in. 

I didn't mention Jay because whenever I mentioned a CF option, I mentioned Pollock.  He would have been my choice, but he is also going to be expensive and cost a pick, and has risky.

This is the FA CF list:

Center fielders
AJ Pollock

Adam Jones (no longer a CF)

Billy Hamilton (off the board)

Eric Young Jr

Rajai Davis

Austin Jackson

Jon Jay

I'd say they got one of the better options, for super cheap 1 year deal, and he has supplemental benefits.  Don't get why anyone would complain about this.  If he sucks, so what.  But he's very likely going to be better than Engel, who absolute best case scenario is the 4th OF on the next Sox playoff team, so I am not losing any sleep. 

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

2nd half of last year - Adam Engel .668 OPS, Jon Jay .619. He shoulda tried hitting without the bag, it didn't work. 

 

Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP:

2018  OBP:  Engel  .275 vs. Jay .330

Moreover, Jay had a decent first half, with the Royals, in our division, before being traded. He hit .277 with a .346 in the first half, and had very limited playing time, in the second half, when his numbers fell, dramatically.

Put another way, would you even dream of batting Engel in the 2 hole?

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't know, one thing I wanted to see when we started trying to sign productive free agents again is that the front office had a better eye. If we miss out on machado and these players are bad then I will once again be wondering if we have a front office capable of using every avenue to build a winning roster.

The excuse will be they were never meant to actually perform well...they were merely “seed funding” to bring Machado into the fold.

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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The excuse will be they were never meant to actually perform well...they were merely “seed funding” to bring Machado into the fold.

But if that's in lieu of offering the most money it's naive. I'm very optimistic that Machado is indeed going to find his way here and these will be incredibly creative and interesting ways to lure a free agent.

BUT, there is indeed a scenario that sox made these out of desperation and as a substitute for a bid that would lure him on its own, and that to me is not a "well we tried, what more could we have done" reaction, it's a "look at the fools being fools again".

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5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah, I have to say if white sox are acquiring these guys without any signal that it will benefit them in negotiations I will be disappointed.

When they traded for Alonso, I figured it was a done deal. But, apparently no. Now Jay. They have to have been told something. 

 

I guess the danger here is when it's time to say goodbye to them, is Manny going to be OK with that? I sure wish he made more friends at All Star games.

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