ptatc Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. I don't think adding 13 million to a 75 million payroll especially with the current youth movement will be significant. Especially since they are both for one year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, GREEDY said: Not saying this isn't going to work but put me firmly in the "Machado would prefer the $13,000,000" camp. I think a better way to read it is that the Sox have met his demand for money, and can spend on making him happy in other ways. If he just wanted $13M, I think the Sox would given it to him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, bmags said: Yeah, I have to say if white sox are acquiring these guys without any signal that it will benefit them in negotiations I will be disappointed. I think the likelihood of that is less than 1%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Maybe $13 million could be invested into figuring why we can’t evaluate talent very well? That’s just as well as throwing it at the Emilio Bonifacios of the world. Jay is basically another Peter Bourjos, except he has a better brand name due to playing with playoff-contending Cardinals teams and fit in quite well there as a complementary part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Crackpot Theory: These friends and family moves have more to do with Jerry wanting to be an old school fiscally responsible owner and not Overpay/Outbid the competition by millions of dollars. So Hahn has to get creative and try to make the Sox an attractive destination with a fair offer, instead of doing what everyone else does when they need a player and just bid the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lillian said: Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP: 2018 OBP: Engel .275 vs. Jay .330 Moreover, Jay had a decent first half, with the Royals, in our division, before being traded. He hit .277 with a .346 in the first half, and had very limited playing time, in the second half, when his numbers fell, dramatically. Put another way, would you even dream of batting Engel in the 2 hole? Second half 2018 OBP: Engel .287 / Jay .292 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lillian said: Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP: Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 All I know is there might be a restraining order issued against Rick Hahn for stalking Machado if all these moves were not part of an elaborate charade where we already knew he was in the bag the week of the Alonso deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: I don't think adding 13 million to a 75 million payroll especially with the current youth movement will be significant. Especially since they are both for one year. I am really not nearly as dense as some try to make me. I know the checks aren't going to bounce. I am merely saying they have spent $13 million and are still a 95 loss team. If that $13 million reels in Machado, it's great. It is money well spent. If not, it's $13 million that won't be in the checking account when you are actually adding players to win games. At some point, that $13 million makes a difference for every team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Lillian said: Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP: 2018 OBP: Engel .275 vs. Jay .330 Moreover, Jay had a decent first half, with the Royals, in our division, before being traded. He hit .277 with a .346 in the first half, and had very limited playing time, in the second half, when his numbers fell, dramatically. Put another way, would you even dream of batting Engel in the 2 hole? Jon Jay should not be a #2 hole hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Who would you have played in CF instead? If you don't think you can get Machado, I run out Engel and see what happens. I am OK with punting on 2019 if we don't get a whale. But if the Sox really think this could help them standout from the crowd for Machado, you do it. Why wouldn't you do literally everything you think you can do to win this? I mean it shows the White Sox have done their research on the guy and seem to understand who and what he likes. It is worth taking a chance on impressing Manny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 30 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I sure as hell wouldn't. One or two injuries out of Eloy and Lopez and Rodon and this roster suddenly looks like a nightmare. Well then, don't we have a bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughneck Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, GREEDY said: Not saying this isn't going to work but put me firmly in the "Machado would prefer the $13,000,000" camp. But that's a false equivalency. The Sox have a low payroll and could offer Machado $100 million a year for the next 4 years if they wanted to. They set a value and a dollar amount to his production. The $13 mil is not stopping them from offering Machado money, and the Sox reportedly have the highest offer to him. As for Jay, this seems like a move that would only happen if they were getting Machado. Otherwise, why would Manny want to influence the Sox to sign his friend, then have his friend spend a year on an awful team? Jay is no star, but he's a competent player who could have gotten a contract elsewhere. Unless this is an elaborate punk'd from Machado, I don't think he'd want to stick his friend on a 4th place team. Edited January 8, 2019 by Roughneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 This better culminate in machado. Otherwise it's pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, GREEDY said: Crackpot Theory: These friends and family moves have more to do with Jerry wanting to be an old school fiscally responsible owner and not Overpay/Outbid the competition by millions of dollars. So Hahn has to get creative and try to make the Sox an attractive destination with a fair offer, instead of doing what everyone else does when they need a player and just bid the most. I’d rather throw that money into building a state of the art training center and baseball academy in Cuba. Or I’d build one in eastern Colombia for all the young Venezuelan players who have been abandoned when most of the big league clubs pulled out. The fact of the matter is that we remain stymied in the Dominican and Asia. Then again, if we keep adding Machado connections, at this rate, the DR reps will outnumber Cubans. And we’ll have the most MLB representatives for the World Baseball Classic, so there’s that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I am really not nearly as dense as some try to make me. I know the checks aren't going to bounce. I am merely saying they have spent $13 million and are still a 95 loss team. If that $13 million reels in Machado, it's great. It is money well spent. If not, it's $13 million that won't be in the checking account when you are actually adding players to win games. At some point, that $13 million makes a difference for every team. It's not like the $13 million will be on the books each year for the next five years. If it was, then I could see your point. This money will not be a part of their payroll when they are competing, so all it becomes is $13 million less that the team will profit. But it won't make any sort of difference with future signings. Edited January 8, 2019 by SoxBlanco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: This better culminate in machado. Otherwise it's pathetic. You're upset by Jay specifically or just the recruiting by roster? I was not a fan of the Alonso move but I see nothing wrong with this move. Jay is a better ballplayer than he's getting credited for here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: This better culminate in machado. Otherwise it's pathetic. If you think you are getting a 3-0 fastball you swing for the fences if you swing. That doesn't mean you are going to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Roughneck said: But that's a false equivalency. The Sox have a low payroll and could offer Machado $100 million a year for the next 4 years if they wanted to. They set a value and a dollar amount to his production. The $13 mil is not stopping them from offering Machado money, and the Sox reportedly have the highest offer to him. As for Jay, this seems like a move that would only happen if they were getting Machado. Otherwise, why would Manny want to influence the Sox to sign his friend, then have his friend spend a year on an awful team? Jay is no star, but he's a competent player who could have gotten a contract elsewhere. Unless this is an elaborate punk'd from Machado, I don't think he'd want to stick his friend on a 4th place team. Jay signed with KC last year. They sucked. Alonso might have a better case of being jilted, leaving the playoff-bound Indians. That said, Chicago is a better city at least. Is Darin Erstad not available? Edited January 8, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: It's not like the $13 million will be on the books each year for the next five years. Then I could see your point. This money will not be a part of their payroll when they are competing, so all it becomes is $13 million less that the team will profit. But it won't make any sort of difference with future signings. The $13 million, if not spent, would not magically disappear. It would still be available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If we land Manny I could see this line up could see a lineup like this 2B Moncada# CF Jay* 3B Machado DH Abreu 1B Alonso* RF Jimenez LF Palka* C Castillo SS Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: The $13 million, if not spent, would not magically disappear. It would still be available. But what matters is the yearly payroll. If I walked up to Theo and handed him $20 million right now, it would not increase his chances of landing Harper at all. They would still need to clear some space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I don't think it needs to be pointed out and repeated that this move is dumb without Machado. We all know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The $13 million, if not spent, would not magically disappear. It would still be available. Using your own logic here, what if these are $13 million for Alonso and Jay are $13 million unspent dollars from last year that is essentially free money that can be used for recruiting this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, beautox said: If we land Manny I could see this line up could see a lineup like this 2B Moncada# CF Jay* 3B Machado DH Abreu 1B Alonso* RF Jimenez LF Palka* C Castillo SS Anderson Why would you give Jay that many at-bats, compared to Jimenez, Palka or Anderson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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