Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, greg775 said: I just get upset all the time when my favorite White Sox get released or reamed on the board by the analytical guys who are suddenly quiet regarding Jon Jay. I mean there's kind of a double standard when people ream me for loving guys like Davidson/Palka because their advanced stats blow, or worshiping Avi when it's pointed out he'll be too old to be on the WS teams and then we pick up a Jon Jay and nobody's outraged. In pure entertainment value, if Avi stays healthy, you get 30 home runs (EXCITEMENT). Nobody can deny he's not as bad as he once was defensively. There's something to be said bout watching a guy like Avi. What the hell is Jon gonna do next season to thrill anybody? Oh well, I don't think like most of you. Avi has never hit more than 19 home runs in a season. And if you scroll through this thread, there's a decent amount of frustration. Outside of signing Machado it's a waste of $4 million. If Machado is signed then I'll petition to have a bird species renamed the Jon Jay and we'll stage a party where we celebrate the signing of the Jon Jay treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, greg775 said: I just get upset all the time when my favorite White Sox get released or reamed on the board by the analytical guys who are suddenly quiet regarding Jon Jay. I mean there's kind of a double standard when people ream me for loving guys like Davidson/Palka because their advanced stats blow, or worshiping Avi when it's pointed out he'll be too old to be on the WS teams and then we pick up a Jon Jay and nobody's outraged. In pure entertainment value, if Avi stays healthy, you get 30 home runs (EXCITEMENT). Nobody can deny he's not as bad as he once was defensively. There's something to be said bout watching a guy like Avi. What the hell is Jon gonna do next season to thrill anybody? Oh well, I don't think like most of you. He’s grindy. That’s all that matters. That and securing the services of Machado. If he doesn’t become part of that scenario, his time with the organization and association with said failure will last as long as Peter Bourjos’ Sox career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Well, Avi just LOOKS like he can potentially hit 30 homers and steal 30 bags per season. The White Sox version of Willie Mays Hayes, except for that anomalous 2017 All-Star breakout before regressing to the mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Well, Avi just LOOKS like he can potentially hit 30 homers and steal 30 bags per season. The White Sox version of Willie Mays Hayes, except for that anomalous 2017 All-Star breakout before regressing to the mean. He also had 561 PAs in 2017 and hit 18 home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: He also had 561 PAs in 2017 and hit 18 home runs. Some got caught up in the Ken Harrelson hype machine and forgot to monitor the actual results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Who gets DFA'd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, oldsox said: Who gets DFA'd? Tilson probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 3:14 PM, greg775 said: I just get upset all the time when my favorite White Sox get released or reamed on the board by the analytical guys who are suddenly quiet regarding Jon Jay. I mean there's kind of a double standard when people ream me for loving guys like Davidson/Palka because their advanced stats blow, or worshiping Avi when it's pointed out he'll be too old to be on the WS teams and then we pick up a Jon Jay and nobody's outraged. In pure entertainment value, if Avi stays healthy, you get 30 home runs (EXCITEMENT). Nobody can deny he's not as bad as he once was defensively. There's something to be said bout watching a guy like Avi. What the hell is Jon gonna do next season to thrill anybody? Oh well, I don't think like most of you. 30 home runs? Really? OK then.... I can say he's still a butcher in the outfield Yea there is something to watching Avi make a fool of himself in the outfield or on the bases. Comedic relief. Look the guy had his chances, he had one good fluke season, other than that he's been out of shape or hurt and he admitted publicly a few years ago that he was out of shape to one of the mainsteam newspapers and vowed it wouldn't happen again. That lost me right there...a pro athlete who has all the incentive in the world to be in top shape to perform...and he didn't. No thank you. John Jay is not going to move the needle that much in all probability... OK, I get that. But he's here for one year tops and maybe not even that depending on how fast the Sox prospects advance but frankly I'd rather see him for one year then the same outfield garbage we've been seeing for the past several years. Guys who can't stay healthy (the Garcia boys), guys who can't hit (Engle) or guys who need to be full time DH's (Palka) At least in Palka's case the jury is still out on him. He may be a valuable player off the bench in a few years if the Sox are good. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: But he's here for one year tops and maybe not even that depending on how fast the Sox prospects advance but frankly I'd rather see him for one year then the same outfield garbage we've been seeing for the past several years. Guys who can't stay healthy (the Garcia boys), guys who can't hit (Engle) or guys who need to be full time DH's (Palka) "Sure he's garbage, but I've grown accustomed to the smell of my own garbage and would really like to sample the odors of other types of garbage." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Jay is on his way to Chicago right now, so I imagine it gets announced officially either tonight or tomorrow. I believe a corresponding roster move has to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peavy44 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Jay is on his way to Chicago right now, so I imagine it gets announced officially either tonight or tomorrow. I believe a corresponding roster move has to come. I am sorry what else do you know man. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Jay is on his way to Chicago right now, so I imagine it gets announced officially either tonight or tomorrow. I believe a corresponding roster move has to come. It’s got to be Tilson, who is even more redundant now with Jay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: It’s got to be Tilson, who is even more redundant now with Jay. I'll guess Casey Gillaspie even though he's younger than Tilson and has a lot more power. Kind of my long shot guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, greg775 said: You all know greg is bizarre and some moves anger him and some don't. I'm trying to remain calm as I have off season, but I want to know how anybody on this board can be in favor of the Jay signing. I really don't want to hear about the intangibles involving he and Manny and he being best buds this time. He already has his brother in law on the team which is good nuff. I want you advanced stat guys to tell me anything you like about Jay. He's everything "many" advanced stat people hate. Age: a negative. He had 527 at bats for gosh sakes and look at his production last year. He doesn't run, doesn't hit for any power, doesn't knock in runs, and doesn't draw an amazing amount of walks. It is an insult to this Sox fan that they'd release Avi and acquire Mr. Jay. Ugh. Talk me off the ledge; I don't think you can unless you just say a.) if it helps us get Manny ... b.) he's better than Engel and not blocking anybody. c.) he's a good fourth outfielder. Give me anybody in our organization (especially Avi) over Jon Jay. Sorry if I am mad; I am who I am. Way too much gibberish in this thread about Jay. Not just you greg. It's one year and he doesn't move the needle much at all in next year. Who really cares ? Greg you know I'm with you on AVi , (God help me) but am I upset ? Nope. He could break out again with power and average. More than likely he won't. Jay will never be what Avi could be . Let's just forget Jay and Avi and let's start looking forward to Eloy Jimenez. Hitch your wagon to his star and forget the wannabees, couldhavebeens and neverwases. It's time to look forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I'll guess Casey Gillaspie even though he's younger than Tilson and has a lot more power. Kind of my long shot guess. Gillaspie is not on the 40 man. So probably not him. Edited January 9, 2019 by ChiSox59 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Gillaspie is not on the 40 man. So probably not him. Then it truly was a long shot guess. Ha thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I’ll bite, Greg. The Jay signing doesn’t anger me because Jay is a pretty damned consistent non-needle mover. You know what you will get -a .270-.280 season, probably an OBA of .320-.330, passable CF. A WAR of 1-1.5 at a position in the batting order, and within our financial scheme where it’s perfectly acceptable to have that. The Machado stuff is cherry on top. It’s a very smart move all around. With Avi Garcia, you might get a 2.5 WAR season where he hits the BABIP luckbox again, or you might get injuries, inconsistent defense, low batting average, low oba - for twice the money. The latter is much, much more likely. With Engel, who knows where the bottom might be offensively, and we’ve reiterated over and over again that the defensive wows don’t amount to nearly enough to outweigh it. I think you can pencil in Jay’s floor and his ceiling. There’s a comfort in some sort of certainty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickinIndiana Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Not sure why everyone is so upset about this. Jay is a league average outfielder and the Sox didn't get league average production from any of the three outfield positions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, RickinIndiana said: Not sure why everyone is so upset about this. Jay is a league average outfielder and the Sox didn't get league average production from any of the three outfield positions. Based on the standard definition of league average, no he wasn't, not last year at least. He was slightly better than replacement, basically what you should be able to pick up off the scrap heap mid season, or in other words - Adam Engel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 He's not league average, but he's above replacement. That's been a problem - rounding out their lineup with above replacement players. Also, the White Sox aren't positioning themselves to win a World Series next year. They are positioning themselves to contend for the division title in a weak division, win 80-90 games, identify who is valuable moving forward, and continue development. A proven, consistent veteran you can plug into a hole at a fair price is valuable thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 1/9/2019 at 11:16 AM, Greg Hibbard said: He's not league average, but he's above replacement. That's been a problem - rounding out their lineup with above replacement players. Also, the White Sox aren't positioning themselves to win a World Series next year. They are positioning themselves to contend for the division title in a weak division, win 80-90 games, identify who is valuable moving forward, and continue development. A proven, consistent veteran you can plug into a hole at a fair price is valuable thing. Unless they somehow seriously upgraded their starting rotation they aren't contending for anything in 2019 let alone win 80-90 games. 2019 is for the continued development of the young players while trying to show gradual improvement in terms of wins until the prospects start coming up in boatloads. The vets can help stabilize this process while being possible trade pieces if everything goes badly south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 So can the Whitesox hold off on his physical until Machado signs or is that not a thing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, beckham15 said: So can the Whitesox hold off on his physical until Machado signs or is that not a thing ? If Alonso and Jay were part of actual conversations between Manny's camp and RH (like I think they were), I'm assuming Manny will wait until Jay's deal is finalized before signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: He's not league average, but he's above replacement. That's been a problem - rounding out their lineup with above replacement players. Also, the White Sox aren't positioning themselves to win a World Series next year. They are positioning themselves to contend for the division title in a weak division, win 80-90 games, identify who is valuable moving forward, and continue development. A proven, consistent veteran you can plug into a hole at a fair price is valuable thing. Engel was a 0.2 fWAR, Jay a 0.8. Jay is going to be 34 years old. Do you think he's heading higher? If it's an upgrade, it's not one that is going to help the team contend for the division. I get being sick of Engel. I am sick of watching him try to hit as well. I think Leury is a better option than Jay at this point. He'll probably get hurt, but I think he will perform better if he can get some consistent playing time. That said, Jon Jay wasn't acquired to take the White Sox to the AL Central penthouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickinIndiana Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Jay is a useful, veteran presence on the bench and for occasional starts. If he gets more than 300 at bats than the plan has gone awry. If he stays healthy and gets less than 300 at bats than the plan may be coming together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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