FS Podcast: JJ Cooper of Baseball America on the ChiSox system

[NorthSideSox72]

The first pod of 2019 for FutureSox features Baseball American Executive Editor JJ Cooper discussing lots of White Sox prospects with Clint Cole. All the details/links here.

Next episode will feature Laz Rivera and Blake Rutherford, later this week most likely.

 

 

[bmags]

I love Cooper. He falls in love with college prospects too much, but the guy just loves baseball. That whole BA crew is incredible with how much they get around and still write with passion.

[Southwest Sider]

Good podcast. I felt like it was pretty sobering, however. Cooper details how our farm really doesn't have a ton of impact talent compared to the very best farms. He still loves our farm, but we do require Eloy to be a cornerstone and several of our best prospects to 'hit' for this to be success. To me, this clearly highlights how badly we do need to add a player like Machado, especially if we want to reach Rick Hahns goal of critical mass of talent.

[Sleepy Harold]

19 minutes ago, South Sider said:

Good podcast. I felt like it was pretty sobering, however. Cooper details how our farm really doesn't have a ton of impact talent compared to the very best farms. He still loves our farm, but we do require Eloy to be a cornerstone and several of our best prospects to 'hit' for this to be success. To me, this clearly highlights how badly we do need to add a player like Machado, especially if we want to reach Rick Hahns goal of critical mass of talent.

Or make some big splashes this year in the INTL period since the cap will be off in tandem with the #3 pick.  That should at least help matters some (hopefully).

[bmags]

37 minutes ago, South Sider said:

Good podcast. I felt like it was pretty sobering, however. Cooper details how our farm really doesn't have a ton of impact talent compared to the very best farms. He still loves our farm, but we do require Eloy to be a cornerstone and several of our best prospects to 'hit' for this to be success. To me, this clearly highlights how badly we do need to add a player like Machado, especially if we want to reach Rick Hahns goal of critical mass of talent.

The white Sox have done a very poor job supplementing this rebuild in the draft and Needs Robert to hit because otherwise it is another lost decade from Latin America, something that is an unbelievable anchor to whatever success this team may have.

[SoxSteve]

It was  a little sobering and you are correct in the assumption that we need Eloy to be a superstar but his monotone deliver has something to do with that, lol. I disagree with all this Madrigal and lack of power crap. I don't care how many homers he hits as long as he is a 280 plus hitter with a 360 plus OBP his homer total is irrelevant imo. The one concern with our system ( besides the injuries)  is that it seems like we have a lot of AAA good players and not many close to the majors. Again that is why Machado is soooo important. Yet with all that said we will only go as far as our pitching takes us so we need  Dunning, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, to be very good or it is a moot point anyway.

[beautox]

5 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

It was  a little sobering and you are correct in the assumption that we need Eloy to be a superstar but his monotone deliver has something to do with that, lol. I disagree with all this Madrigal and lack of power crap. I don't care how many homers he hits as long as he is a 280 plus hitter with a 360 plus OBP his homer total is irrelevant imo. The one concern with our system ( besides the injuries)  is that it seems like we have a lot of AAA good players and not many close to the majors. Again that is why Machado is soooo important. Yet with all that said we will only go as far as our pitching takes us so we need  Dunning, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, to be very good or it is a moot point anyway.

I agree it was a sobering podcast but this system has had more than its fair share of injuries and set backs with its most acclaimed prospects. I think the good better best scenario for Madrigal is something like this: David Eckstein, Howie Kendrick & Dustin Pedroia

[Dominikk85]

10 hours ago, bmags said:

The white Sox have done a very poor job supplementing this rebuild in the draft and Needs Robert to hit because otherwise it is another lost decade from Latin America, something that is an unbelievable anchor to whatever success this team may have.

What issue do you have with the draft? Rebuild really started 2016 and here are the picks

 

2016: collins (10)

-iffy at catcher but one of the very best college bats with a 1200 ops and 16 homers. Not bad at all at 10 even if he is a 1b

 

2017:

-burger (11)

-same as in 2016, iffy defense but top performing college bat (1100 ops, 22 hr, mid 400s obp). Got injured but nobody could have predicted that.  Not bad at 11 even if there was 1b risk too like with collins

 

2018:

madrigal (4)

-again a top college performer and considered the safest college bat at the time as well as a good defender. Different hitter than the other two but still college performer.

I don't see any issues here. They went with polished top college bats. All three have somewhat limited ceilings (the former two in defense/athleticism and the latter in power) but had high floors. Especially with the former two you can't have both, at 10 you have to chose ceiling or floor. Sure they could have taken a hs guy but that would have come with more bust risk. Sox basically went the Cubs way going for polished college performers but unfortunately no bryant was available.

[bmags]

15 hours ago, [email protected] said:

What issue do you have with the draft? Rebuild really started 2016 and here are the picks

 

2016: collins (10)

-iffy at catcher but one of the very best college bats with a 1200 ops and 16 homers. Not bad at all at 10 even if he is a 1b

 

2017:

-burger (11)

-same as in 2016, iffy defense but top performing college bat (1100 ops, 22 hr, mid 400s obp). Got injured but nobody could have predicted that.  Not bad at 11 even if there was 1b risk too like with collins

 

2018:

madrigal (4)

-again a top college performer and considered the safest college bat at the time as well as a good defender. Different hitter than the other two but still college performer.

I don't see any issues here. They went with polished top college bats. All three have somewhat limited ceilings (the former two in defense/athleticism and the latter in power) but had high floors. Especially with the former two you can't have both, at 10 you have to chose ceiling or floor. Sure they could have taken a hs guy but that would have come with more bust risk. Sox basically went the Cubs way going for polished college performers but unfortunately no bryant was available.

I like Madrigal, but you are removing some other elements of scouting. For one, the sox switched to "advanced"college bats, that in 2016 saw good patient approaches but high k rates. In 2017 they switched it up to both college hitters good patience, power and lower k rates up and the first 15 rounds of that draft. Only 1 high schooler.

It certainly seemed like something the sox were lacking. However, these was also a pretty unathletic group. With 2017 especially it had the potential to derail some to lower value positions on defense. And it meant they were relatively maxed out. That's something that we are seeing with our advanced college bats. Exciting first seasons leading to ceilings very quickly as they approach age appropriate levels.

The absolute slam dunk time the white sox could have spent on a high school position player was the comp round in 2016, which they took a college reliever. 

Could the sox have put together more money to get Gavin Lux away from dodgers? I don't know, but there was taylor trammel and bo bichette, joey wentz and jordan sheffield.

The sox haul at the time seemed great, collins, burdi and hansen. But the thing you would say was a risk with all of them happened. I'm still bullish on collins as I don't like the soxtalk thing of moving them to a position the moment a negative scouting report on defense comes out. They drafted a college reliever with the first pick. They drafted a catcher very likely to move to 1b, then they drafted a highly volatile arm. 

2017 they drafted an overweight 3b. He tore his achilles running. They drafted a 1b who can't hit for power, and paid him overslot!

You look at other systems you just see much more variety in the prospects, more from lat am, more high schoolers, players that grow in the system to become top prospects. The sox acquire players at their top value then...see that they were essentially maxed out.

They are either not confident in their ability to develop or not confident in their ability to identify talent when it's raw and younger.

I hope 2018's draft ends up great. I hope Luis Curbelo becomes a monster. 2018 as a year on the farm was brutal, and the thing that sucks about college draftees is injuries destroy development time. But it could turn the corner! It's just I don't give sox benefit of the doubt that that happens, because it hasn't before. Other orgs that develop talent? Too early to grade but also more prospects that have already vaulted to relevance.

 

[Clint]

I plan on having more guys like this on when I can. Hopefully everyone enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for listening.

[Dominikk85]

22 hours ago, bmags said:

I like Madrigal, but you are removing some other elements of scouting. For one, the sox switched to "advanced"college bats, that in 2016 saw good patient approaches but high k rates. In 2017 they switched it up to both college hitters good patience, power and lower k rates up and the first 15 rounds of that draft. Only 1 high schooler.

It certainly seemed like something the sox were lacking. However, these was also a pretty unathletic group. With 2017 especially it had the potential to derail some to lower value positions on defense. And it meant they were relatively maxed out. That's something that we are seeing with our advanced college bats. Exciting first seasons leading to ceilings very quickly as they approach age appropriate levels.

The absolute slam dunk time the white sox could have spent on a high school position player was the comp round in 2016, which they took a college reliever. 

Could the sox have put together more money to get Gavin Lux away from dodgers? I don't know, but there was taylor trammel and bo bichette, joey wentz and jordan sheffield.

The sox haul at the time seemed great, collins, burdi and hansen. But the thing you would say was a risk with all of them happened. I'm still bullish on collins as I don't like the soxtalk thing of moving them to a position the moment a negative scouting report on defense comes out. They drafted a college reliever with the first pick. They drafted a catcher very likely to move to 1b, then they drafted a highly volatile arm. 

2017 they drafted an overweight 3b. He tore his achilles running. They drafted a 1b who can't hit for power, and paid him overslot!

You look at other systems you just see much more variety in the prospects, more from lat am, more high schoolers, players that grow in the system to become top prospects. The sox acquire players at their top value then...see that they were essentially maxed out.

They are either not confident in their ability to develop or not confident in their ability to identify talent when it's raw and younger.

I hope 2018's draft ends up great. I hope Luis Curbelo becomes a monster. 2018 as a year on the farm was brutal, and the thing that sucks about college draftees is injuries destroy development time. But it could turn the corner! It's just I don't give sox benefit of the doubt that that happens, because it hasn't before. Other orgs that develop talent? Too early to grade but also more prospects that have already vaulted to relevance.

 

Yeah, that could be true. I think generally it is good they focussed more on polished high on base percentage bats who can take a walk and hit for some power instead of taking a lot of raw, free swinging athletes but maybe they swung too far the other direction and should mix in a few more young elite athletes.

 

Of course the bust rate with those guys is bigger and most won't become disciplined, good hitters but if one learns to hit he can become a superstar.

I think it should be a good mix of polished bats, elite up the middle athletes and pitchers.

 

Robert certainly could be such  a guy, hopefully they will take more top international guys in the next years.