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Joc Pederson: ??​​​​​​​?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​


NCsoxfan

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16 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

Then he later tweeted...

 

Uh huh. “And maybe even...” We are going to believe a high school kid who suggests Bryce Bush? Are we sure his mom didn’t give him this scoop and told him to run with it, and he just threw Bush out there? I doubt they would give up Bush unless Machado is in the fold. That makes no sense.

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1 minute ago, The Beast said:

Uh uh huh. “And maybe even...” We are going to believe a high school kid who suggests Bryce Bush? Are we sure his mom didn’t give him this scoop and told him to run with it, and he just threw Bush out there? I doubt they would give up Bush unless Machado is in the fold. That makes no sense.

Again, believe it or not, he does have connections.  I think the fact that multiple national reporters ran with it too gives him at least some cred.  

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Your argument is Joc would demand to play CF going into free agency a la Manny Machado instead of moving to corner. It’s a terrible argument. If he needs to play CF because Sox need it, then it has nothing to do with what machado did. So it’s a terrible argument.

Where did I say anything about DEMANDING anything?  The previous poster was opining that he could be signed as a 1B/DH after 2020.   The argument is simply that he's going to be worth a lot more to other teams playing CF for the White Sox.  Now I suppose you could argue that they should play Jay in CF over him, but Jay's 34....Harper/Markakis/Adam Jones acquisitions would all likely put him in CF for the Sox as well.

The Machado is DEMANDING the White Sox allow him to play SS isn't even something we know to be a fact, right?  It's just speculation, based on what his former high school coach said.

So if your interpretation is that he wouldn't go to the White Sox unless we put him in CF, well...frankly, it doesn't matter what he wants.  Of course, he can act out like Nick Swisher and get himself traded eventually, but that's pretty far-fetched for someone who will be hitting FA at age 28 (turning 29).

In fact, he's MUCH MORE likely to play CF for the White Sox than pretty much any team in baseball, particularly the Dodgers.  So he should welcome a trade, because he can play nearly everyday...although not in the pole position of being on a team with six consecutive playoff appearances and climbing.

 

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4 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

I don’t see why you trade Bush even if Machado is signed. It’s not good practice in general to sell free high upside optionality. Better to trade a higher value today with a very limited ceiling 

Well, this is the same argument that other teams make for not giving up draft picks to sign the likes of an AJ Pollock.

That said, if you could have a 2nd round draft pick (or let's even throw out a name, Steele Walker)...wouldn't you rather trade Bush than Walker or a 2nd round pick?

No matter how impressive he was last year, has he really elevated his value THAT much based on one short-season of baseball?

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17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There's no way they're going to add Keuchel this year...it's going to be someone like Miley/Gio/Pomeranz, depending on whether we get HIll or not.

It doesn't make sense to go all-in on the FA pitching market until we know exactly what we have (and we still won't know about Kopech 100%) heading into 2020.

I agree, but I think you only make this move if you're making several other moves and you're definitively going for it this year. I don't think the Sox should "go for it" quite yet.

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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, this is the same argument that other teams make for not giving up draft picks to sign the likes of an AJ Pollock.

That said, if you could have a 2nd round draft pick (or let's even throw out a name, Steele Walker)...wouldn't you rather trade Bush than Walker or a 2nd round pick?

No matter how impressive he was last year, has he really elevated his value THAT much based on one short-season of baseball?

Bryce Bush was not a "33rd round pick" based on his value going into the draft. Had people actually thought there was a good chance he would sign, he would have been a much higher pick. People didn't think he'd sign so he fell until the point where teams were using draft picks on guys who were very unlikely to sign.

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Just now, caulfield12 said:

Where did I say anything about DEMANDING anything?  The previous poster was opining that he could be signed as a 1B/DH after 2020.   The argument is simply that he's going to be worth a lot more to other teams playing CF for the White Sox.  Now I suppose you could argue that they should play Jay in CF over him, but Jay's 34....Harper/Markakis/Adam Jones acquisitions would all likely put him in CF for the Sox as well.

The Machado is DEMANDING the White Sox allow him to play SS isn't even something we know to be a fact, right?  It's just speculation, based on what his former high school coach said.

So if your interpretation is that he wouldn't go to the White Sox unless we put him in CF, well...frankly, it doesn't matter what he wants.  Of course, he can act out like Nick Swisher and get himself traded eventually, but that's pretty far-fetched for someone who will be hitting FA at age 28 (turning 29).

In fact, he's MUCH MORE likely to play CF for the White Sox than pretty much any team in baseball, particularly the Dodgers.  So he should welcome a trade, because he can play nearly everyday...although not in the pole position of being on a team with six consecutive playoff appearances and climbing.

 

 

Do you realize LAST year was Machados year before free agency, and strongly requested they let him play SS from 3b? Not this upcoming year, last year.

So when you say “the machado principle” people would think it has something to do with that? 

If Pederson is acquired and is still in CF in two years, it’s because Sox don’t have better CF options, and it will have no bearing on his FA. Oh wait, I forgot how all of the teams are confused about how Harper player CF last year and are signing him as a CF now!

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7 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

I don’t see why you trade Bush even if Machado is signed. It’s not good practice in general to sell free high upside optionality. Better to trade a higher value today with a very limited ceiling 

Well said, it doesn’t mean you have to think Bush is definitely an all star.

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

 

Do you realize LAST year was Machados year before free agency, and strongly requested they let him play SS from 3b? Not this upcoming year, last year.

So when you say “the machado principle” people would think it has something to do with that? 

If Pederson is acquired and is still in CF in two years, it’s because Sox don’t have better CF options, and it will have no bearing on his FA. Oh wait, I forgot how all of the teams are confused about how Harper player CF last year and are signing him as a CF now!

Since a lot of board members think Harper should already be converted to 1B, I don't think Harper has much to do with it.

So let's not call it the Manny Machado Principle, then let's call it the all players who can stick at catcher, middle infield or CF are going to be more highly valued in Free Agency than those who cannot play those positions defensively...and their fWAR values should be correspondingly higher (maybe not in the case of Machado playing Gold Glove 3B vs. average SS, I'll leave it for the statniks to argue which has the higher value).

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9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, this is the same argument that other teams make for not giving up draft picks to sign the likes of an AJ Pollock.

That said, if you could have a 2nd round draft pick (or let's even throw out a name, Steele Walker)...wouldn't you rather trade Bush than Walker or a 2nd round pick?

No matter how impressive he was last year, has he really elevated his value THAT much based on one short-season of baseball?

We can focus on Bush himself or the overall strategy of trading very high upside players who have yet to generate substatial prospect value. Again, I’d prefer to trade someone with more value today and less upside in the future. Obviously we’re all jaded from tatis!

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11 minutes ago, bmags said:

 

Do you realize LAST year was Machados year before free agency, and strongly requested they let him play SS from 3b? Not this upcoming year, last year.

So when you say “the machado principle” people would think it has something to do with that? 

If Pederson is acquired and is still in CF in two years, it’s because Sox don’t have better CF options, and it will have no bearing on his FA. Oh wait, I forgot how all of the teams are confused about how Harper player CF last year and are signing him as a CF now!

Joc Pederson major league games played...

CF=410

LF=122

RF=7

Somehow I doubt Bryce Harper has played 76% of his career MLB games in CF.

 

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35 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

If Pederson was a free agent, I'd be all for the Sox getting him. But I don't like trading a nice prospect like Bush for him when he only has 2 years of control left and likely won't be here when the White Sox World Domination window is open. 

I think this move only makes sense if they are getting Machado and also landing Kuechel. But even then, us winning still requires Yoan to rebound, Giolito to rebound, and for Eloy to tear it up from the start when called up.

So basically we need three former top 10 overall prospects to play closer to their talent level?

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5 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

We can focus on Bush himself or the overall strategy of trading very high upside players who have yet to generate substatial prospect value. Again, I’d prefer to trade someone with more value today and less upside in the future. Obviously we’re all jaded from tatis!

If they think Bush has the potential to really be an excellent 3B...they shouldn't trade him.

We're doing the Dodgers a favor here taking those two salaries (especially Hill).  If the Braves want to give a rival team in the NL a better return (or the Dodgers want to help someone who can knock them out of the playoffs), more power to them.

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19 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

Again, believe it or not, he does have connections.  I think the fact that multiple national reporters ran with it too gives him at least some cred.  

Then I would ask him, “How does Bush make sense?” when he mentions two relievers earlier.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So basically we need three former top 10 overall prospects to play closer to their talent level?

Except that's not 100% fair because Giolito wasn't in that vicinity after his fastball already started showing signs of dipping 2-3 MPH even with the Nationals.

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15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, he clearly got the original scoop, but crazy he knows this much.

I find it funny how he probably has this from his mom, but if that's the case, wouldn't she want to be the one to break this? I would think at some point people in the industry would stop telling her scoop if her son just runs to twitter and spills it over the internet every time.

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7 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I find it funny how he probably has this from his mom, but if that's the case, wouldn't she want to be the one to break this? I would think at some point people in the industry would stop telling her scoop if her son just runs to twitter and spills it over the internet every time.

I would doubt he got it from his mom but also that’s not really Peggy’s gig.

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2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I'm not concerned with trading Bush if you are actually getting a talented player. I dont like trading promising prospects for garbage like Shields. 

I don't like the concept of giving up a guy we could control for several years for a guy we'd control for 2...not when we're not in a position to compete in year 1 and additional help could be arriving as soon as year 2.

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