Joc Pederson: ??​​​​​​​?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[BlackSox13]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, he's only played 7 MLB games in RF, total.

410 in CF, 122 in LF.

Yep, could of looked that one up. Got lazy. He isn't going to LF so CF it is.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

 

What did Matt Holliday do this time

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't like catch probability for a few reasons; one, it's an infant statistic that has already had two significant adjustments in it's calculation and catch difficulty qualifications made to it in the past three years. Two, the sample for each catch group is not large enough - on an individual season basis - to weed all the noise. There is far too much volatility year to year for the statistic to warrant merit when evaluating a players yearly successes.

The statistic is OK when you grow the sample large enough, but by the time it becomes more reliable it no longer has predictive qualities because the data used to generate the  outputs are dated. It's a good tool to evaluate a career, but a bad tool to evaluate a year in my opinion. 

Isn't the catch group not large enough because most of the other catches are fairly routine ? I'm assuming you are talking about the samples in the 1 through 5 star ratings ?

[fathom]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

What did Matt Holliday do this time

still hasn't touched home plate

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

 

God this is unbearable.  We get a little tease and then shit goes completely silent.  I wish one of our insiders would pop in and provide a little tidbit.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And why should I look at his whole career? Didn't you just make the argument about how Jones and Gonzales have sucked over the last couple years? Pederson is a future 1st baseman waiting to happen.He's already slower than many of them. Pederson is a big boy and I don't care how average his whole career WAS in CF he isn't getting any faster.. WAS is not now . At least Rowand wasn't slower than a lot of 1st baseman nor was Jim Edmunds.

Winning matters in 2019 ? Really . Winning what ? The award for the best under .500 team in baseball ? The best team with the most guys who aren't going to be on the team after 2020 ? The youthful core will be supported but not by Pederson playing CF that's for sure.  Hopefully by Machado, a whale pitcher next year and Madrigal, Collins, Robert, Jimenez, Gonzalez, Basabe and whoever else we sign for 2020 and after that.

Because Pederson is still on the upside of his aging curve - although he's nearing a regression point defensively as defense ages quicker than offense in MLB. Pederson still has prime years left in him, and taking the sum of his outcomes is a smarter move than taking a noisy "regression" at 26 years old which doesn't match with standard aging and regression curves for MLB players. Jones and Gonzalez are on the wrong side of 30 (33 and 34), and if you look at their career progression, it is quite obvious they are following the standard aging curve that existed prior to steroids in baseball - and has apparently returned with the reduction of use in PED's. They simply aren't the same thing.

Yes, getting better and improving is important in 2019. Prospect growth and progress IS NOT linear. There's nothing that says such and such will get this much better with this many AB's. For all you know, Anderson and Moncada could have huge breakout years or they could stay the same. You need to be prepared for growth, and not react to it though; reacting to unexpected prospect progression leads to you hampering their further growth because you didn't surround them with quality MLB talent. You can't continue to trot out complete and utter garbage. Sorry, but that's not a rebuild; at some point, your window for growth needs to kick into gear, and after 3 absolutely abysmal seasons for the White Sox, the time is now for them to begin an upward trajectory otherwise you set yourself back another year despite guys like Anderson, Moncada and now Eloy being one year closer to their free agency. Maximizing windows isn't about drafting high every year, it's about year to year growth and changing the organizational culture. 

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Because Pederson is still on the upside of his aging curve - although he's nearing a regression point defensively as defense ages quicker than offense in MLB. Pederson still has prime years left in him, and taking the sum of his outcomes is a smarter move than taking a noisy "regression" at 26 years old which doesn't match with standard aging and regression curves for MLB players. Jones and Gonzalez are on the wrong side of 30 (33 and 34), and if you look at their career progression, it is quite obvious they are following the standard aging curve that existed prior to steroids in baseball - and has apparently returned with the reduction of use in PED's. They simply aren't the same thing.

Yes, getting better and improving is important in 2019. Prospect growth and progress IS NOT linear. There's nothing that says such and such will get this much better with this many AB's. For all you know, Anderson and Moncada could have huge breakout years or they could stay the same. You need to be prepared for growth, and not react to it though; reacting to unexpected prospect progression leads to you hampering their further growth because you didn't surround them with quality MLB talent. You can't continue to trot out complete and utter garbage. Sorry, but that's not a rebuild; at some point, your window for growth needs to kick into gear, and after 3 absolutely abysmal seasons for the White Sox, the time is now for them to begin an upward trajectory otherwise you set yourself back another year despite guys like Anderson, Moncada and now Eloy being one year closer to their free agency. Maximizing windows isn't about drafting high every year, it's about year to year growth and changing the organizational culture. 

I'll give you 2 1/2 years of misery, haha.

We were 23-10 in early May, 2016, before that nightmarish Texas debacle.

Went 55-74 for the rest of the season.

 

But the point about trying to bring forward the prospects with "quality/veteran" players surrounding them holds true.

I especially think that having Machado around will take so much pressure off guys like Moncada and Jimenez.  They won't have to worry about being "franchise saviors" and can just be themselves.

Finally, we have to deal with the Rodon conundrum as well, since he's an FA after 2021 and we WERE considering a "not 100% compete until 2021" approach after the Kopech injury.   Obviously, that thinking has changed pretty dramatically.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by caulfield12

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Just thinking out loud here since there's nothing else to talk about...I wonder if the Yankees would consider an Andujar for Rodon trade. There would probably be more pieces involved, but they're most likely going to get Arenado to play 3B anyway. Machado and Andujar at the corners for the Sox would be great. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Whitesox27

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Lastly, this should have been a slightly expedited rebuild given that they traded elite MLB talent for MLB nearing prospects. They didnt trade for 19 year old kids - they traded for guys that were very close to Major League ready. If the Sox arent competing until 2021 then this rebuild failed as the key components acquired from our major trades will only have 2 years of controllability left.

[The Sir]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We were 23-10 in early May, 2016, before that nightmarish Texas debacle.

 

 

That was the last game I attended. I'd apologize, but I bumped into a coworker there who, to my complete surprise, was wearing a White Sox jersey and was apparently a huge White Sox fan. He ended up going to prison for sleeping with students. So...it was his fault.

[Bob Sacamano]

11 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Just thinking out loud here since there's nothing else to talk about...I wonder if the Yankees would consider an Andujar for Rodon trade. There would probably be more pieces involved, but they're most likely going to get Arenado to play 3B anyway. Machado and Andujar at the corners for the Sox would be great. 

The Arenado rumor ended up being false. And the idea of Andujar for Rodon has been brought up before here, multiple times. I think Andujar ends up at 1B in any scenario they pick up a 3B.

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No he wants to create a team with long term competitiveness to reach the playoffs for multiple years. I'm pretty sure that won't be 2019 with a slim chance at 2020. More likely starting in 2021 after Pederson would be gone along with Alonso, Jay, Colome, Herrera and possibly Abreu.

I’m going to have to disagree. They see how weak the division is. They believe they can be competitive and contend for a division title this year. Again, only because the division is weak and possibly going to get weaker with more trades by the Indians. 

[fathom]

Just now, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

I’m going to have to disagree. They see how weak the division is. They believe they can be competitive and contend for a division title this year. Again, only because the division is weak and possibly going to get weaker with more trades by the Indians. 

wouldn't you agree they need to add Manny though for them to have any hope of competing?

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What? You seem really caught up on my Rowand comment. I'm not sure why... Usually when explaining something - ala sprint speed being overrated as a defender - you want to use an example that your audience would be familiar with. I didn't use Rowand because of Hawk Harrelson or any nonsense; I used Rowand because he's a terrific example for why speed, or lack their of, does not make or break a center fielders defensive prowess. 

He's not universally adored by advanced metrics crowd? The two publications that were highest on Madrigal were fangraphs and BP. 

I agree. Podsednik had great speed and was actually quite bad in the outfield. Albeit his speed allowed him to make up for his deficiencies at times. But he still had some really bad years out there. Plus he had a horrible arm. 

[fathom]

Just now, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

I agree. Podsednik had great speed and was actually quite bad in the outfield. Albeit his speed allowed him to make up for his deficiencies at times. But he still had some really bad years out there. Plus he had a horrible arm. 

Always thought Pods struggled defensively because he wasn't able to use his speed, as he notoriously would take small steps instead of his normal stride.

[iamshack]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

wouldn't you agree they need to add Manny though for them to have any hope of competing?

This is no longer a question of if, but of when. 

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

27 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lastly, this should have been a slightly expedited rebuild given that they traded elite MLB talent for MLB nearing prospects. They didnt trade for 19 year old kids - they traded for guys that were very close to Major League ready. If the Sox arent competing until 2021 then this rebuild failed as the key components acquired from our major trades will only have 2 years of controllability left.

Exactly right. The rebuild is being expedited.  

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

wouldn't you agree they need to add Manny though for them to have any hope of competing?

Yes, I would agree. As well as another piece or 2. 

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

4 minutes ago, iamshack said:

This is no longer a question of if, but of when. 

Exactly Shack. 

[GREEDY]

11 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

I’m going to have to disagree. They see how weak the division is. They believe they can be competitive and contend for a division title this year. Again, only because the division is weak and possibly going to get weaker with more trades by the Indians. 

Obviously, no comparing the starting staffs, with or without Kluber.  You can make the case that the Sox currently have zero position players on their opening day lineup that would start for the Indians (Abreu or Yonder would start at DH, Eloy is coming).  I think the Sox could add Machado, Joc and another $10mm/1yr SP and they'd still be 4/1 to end up with a better record than Cleveland and probably 6/1 to win the division.  That is not quite ready to consider yourself contending IMHO.

Edited January 23, 2019 by GREEDY

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, iamshack said:

This is no longer a question of if, but of when. 

Wow, this is the late night heat the board was in need of!?!

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

Always thought Pods struggled defensively because he wasn't able to use his speed, as he notoriously would take small steps instead of his normal stride.

Podsesnik was horrible at reading the ball off the bat. Took bad routes. Couldn’t throw. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Stealth G.O.A.T.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

Exactly Shack. 

Unless you have sources, I’m not sure you’re reading his post correctly.

[EvilJester99]

Man I want to stop checking twitter but here I am refreshing and refreshing over and over 

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

3 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Obviously, no comparing the starting staffs, with or without Kluber.  You can make the case that the Sox currently have zero position players on their opening day lineup that would start for the Indians (Abreu or Yonder would start at DH, Eloy is coming).  I think the Sox could add Machado, Joc and another $10mm/1yr SP and they'd still be 4/1 to end up with a better record than Cleveland and probably 6/1 to win the division.  That is not quite ready to consider yourself contending IMHO.

All valid points but the Sox don’t agree and see an opening. Which is why they are pursuing what they’re pursuing.