Joc Pederson: ??​​​​​​​?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[Balta1701]

21 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Someone please explain how my dream "conspiracy" could still be true, in light of this sobering word, from "Balta". Is it really all that implausible? Is there a way that the deal could be solidified, and still not have it published? Would postponing a pending physical, until after the announcement, lock in the player, without having it become official?

There are different levels of "solidified", you could have a general agreement set and have a schedule set for a physical and stuff like that. But I always come back to the story with Jermaine Dye, he had an agreement with the White Sox, he was in the middle of taking his Physical, and the Diamondbacks came through with a better offer during the exam. It was up to him whether to honor the original agreement or open the negotiations back up and he was the one who decided to honor the original agreement. 

If we're negotiating a huge deal with Machado and there's 4700 little details about the exact swellopt timing and who will get paid how much if there's a strike or whatever else, the last thing you would want is that deal sitting out there with teams able to get information about it. In this deal, you get the handshake done and you schedule the physical ASAP to get the paperwork complete and filed before anything goes wrong.

Let's put it  this way, if the Phillies agreed with Machado for something like 7/$180 tomorrow, wouldn't you want the White Sox to come in with 8/$220 and beat it? I would. Easily.

[Dick Allen]

32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Moving past this silliness, are you going to rip the trade if the rumored package is true?

It's hard to believe they can't get more for a 2-3 WAR player playing for $5 million. It boggles my mind. Bummer is decent, but c'mon. Fulmer? 80% of this board wanted him DFA'd last year, and some thought he was going to be a 40 man roster causality this winter. Laz is pretty good, but his huge numbers drop off a lot when he plays in more age appropriate leagues. He's already 24. Not much time to become a legit prospect. 

[Goober]

7 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Wow. Using batting average to evaluate a player. Neat. It's like a cave man sighting.

Yeah if it's as poor as .228 it matters. 

[FT35]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's hard to believe they can't get more for a 2-3 WAR player playing for $5 million. It boggles my mind. Bummer is decent, but c'mon. Fulmer? 80% of this board wanted him DFA'd last year, and some thought he was going to be a 40 man roster causality this winter. Laz is pretty good, but his huge numbers drop off a lot when he plays in more age appropriate leagues. He's already 24. Not much time to become a legit prospect. 

Is it just me or has LA inquired about Fulmer in the past?  Keep getting this feeling like he's been on their radar.  

[GREEDY]

4 minutes ago, Goober said:

Yeah if it's as poor as .228 it matters. 

If you have a time machine 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, FT35 said:

Is it just me or has LA inquired about Fulmer in the past?  Keep getting this feeling like he's been on their radar.  

Maybe, but he can work on his spin and velocity, or whatever. If he can't throw strikes when he needs to, none of it matters.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Dick Allen

[SoxBlanco]

7 minutes ago, Goober said:

Yeah if it's as poor as .228 it matters. 

Would you rather have a guy with a career .228 BA and an OPS of .800, or a guy with a career .290 BA and an OPS of .690?

[Dick Allen]

Pederson should be hitting his prime years. If the cost to acquire him is accurate, it's hard to argue with the trade. But it's still hard for me to believe.

 

If he busts out, they can get a lot more for him than they gave up.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Pederson should be hitting his prime years. If the cost to acquire him is accurate, it's hard to argue with the trade. But it's still hard for me to believe.

 

If he busts out, they can get a lot more for him than they gave up.

Yep. Just hide him against lefties.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's hard to believe they can't get more for a 2-3 WAR player playing for $5 million. It boggles my mind. Bummer is decent, but c'mon. Fulmer? 80% of this board wanted him DFA'd last year, and some thought he was going to be a 40 man roster causality this winter. Laz is pretty good, but his huge numbers drop off a lot when he plays in more age appropriate leagues. He's already 24. Not much time to become a legit prospect. 

100% agree.  I was originally hopeful that Hahn would only consider a move like this if on favorables terms and then convinced myself yesterday that he’d have to pay FMV for Joc.  Right now, it sounds like Hahn is getting him at a discount and I find it difficult for anyone to b**** about this move if the price is this low.

[oneofthemikes]

11 minutes ago, Goober said:

Yeah if it's as poor as .228 it matters. 

So we're just gonna ignore the fact that he worked on his swing a lot last offseason (with Matt Lisle who was just hired by the Sox) and hit .248 last year? And that when he was away from Dodger Stadium he was a .270 hitter? 

[FT35]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Pederson should be hitting his prime years. If the cost to acquire him is accurate, it's hard to argue with the trade. But it's still hard for me to believe.

 

If he busts out, they can get a lot more for him than they gave up.

Still gotta hit the ball, but I really like what our stadium potentially does for his power numbers too.  

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

100% agree.  I was originally hopeful that Hahn would only consider a move like this if on favorables terms and then convinced myself yesterday that he’d have to pay FMV for Joc.  Right now, it sounds like Hahn is getting him at a discount and I find it difficult for anyone to b**** about this move if the price is this low.

Sounds like he's getting him at a discount based on what, people's speculation here?

[TomPickle]

4 minutes ago, FT35 said:

Still gotta hit the ball, but I really like what our stadium potentially does for his power numbers too.  

The following players on the White Sox (minimum 100 PAs) had a lower strikeout rate than Joc Pederson last season:

1. Kevan Smith

Edited January 25, 2019 by TomPickle

[thxfrthmmrs]

All. The. Lefities. Hitters edition

Sox could start the year with an all lefities outfield - Palka, Jay, Pederson, with Delmonico on the bench. In all likely scenario Palka and Nicky would be gone, you'd need a couple of right handed bench bats to platoon with on this team.

[Balta1701]

Just now, TomPickle said:

The following players on the White Sox (minimum 100 PAs) had a lower strikeout rate than Joc Pederson:

If he has this much power and he doesn't strike out then how is his batting average so low? Serious question, that must mean that a ton of things he hits are weak ground balls or something like that?

[daggins]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Sounds like he's getting him at a discount based on what, people's speculation here?

Don't forget the twitter randos ?

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If he has this much power and he doesn't strike out then how is his batting average so low? Serious question, that must mean that a ton of things he hits are weak ground balls or something like that?

I've wondered the same thing. He must completely change his approach with two strikes to just protect the plate, and because of that, he hits into a lot of weak outs with two strikes. That's just a guess, though. I haven't watched him play much at all.

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

28 minutes ago, Goober said:

Yeah if it's as poor as .228 it matters. 

Not really. 

[daggins]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he has this much power and he doesn't strike out then how is his batting average so low? Serious question, that must mean that a ton of things he hits are weak ground balls or something like that?

His fly ball rate for his career is over 40%. Fly balls turn into outs more than ground balls or line drives. His career BABIP is like, .270. That's why.

[daggins]

Think about Carlos Quentin - very high FB rate, loads of power, lots of fly outs, low-ish K rate. Quentin's career BABIP was .255.

[Dick Allen]

Dodgers Stadium at night the ball doesn't carry very well. Hopefully, several of those flyouts find their way to the first or second row at GRF.

[Saufley]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Dodgers Stadium at night the ball doesn't carry very well. Hopefully, several of those flyouts find their way to the first or second row at GRF.

I'm hoping for that and starting to get excited about this 2019 team,

[TomPickle]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he has this much power and he doesn't strike out then how is his batting average so low? Serious question, that must mean that a ton of things he hits are weak ground balls or something like that?

I honestly don't know because I haven't watched him play a lot, but his batted ball profile is not that different than Daniel Palka.

Line Drive/Ground Ball/Fly Ball
Pederson: 17% / 39.4% / 43.6%
Palka: 16.3 % / 45.8% / 37.9

Soft Contact/Medium/Hard
Pederson: 19.4% / 47.6% / 33.0%
Palka: 20.5% / 43.2% / 36.4%

BABIP
Pederson: .253
Palka: .308

[103 mph screwball]

 

58 minutes ago, Goober said:

Yeah if it's as poor as .228 it matters. 

I agree with this.  I see the point of batting average being less important than OBP.  However, there are limits.  Would you want someone with a .350 OBP and a .228 average or would you want a player with a .350 OBP and a .310 average?   Walks do not score a runner from second base.   Pederson has low strike outs though.  That to me is a major plus.  A ground out can advance a runner.  A strike out doesn't (usually).   I think those of us that hate low averages are traumatized by Adam Dunn era.  If that makes me a cave man, I'm ok with that.