Joc Pederson: ??​​​​​​​?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[bjchinn15]

7 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Who is Diaz? You mean Laz Rivera?

Well if you say Laz Rivera fast enough three times you get Diaz ...... right ? Yes my fault I meant Rivera 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, bjchinn15 said:

Well if you say Laz Rivera fast enough three times you get Diaz ...... right ? Yes my fault I meant Rivera 

Probably thinking of ump, Liaz Diaz. 

[bjchinn15]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Probably thinking of ump, Liaz Diaz. 

By chance is Laz Rivera middle name Diaz ? In all seriousness I just had a lapse in memory it is a side effect for having kids after age 30

[Princess Dye]

 

[smellysox]

57 minutes ago, Princess Dye said:

 

That is what I have suspected.

[GreenSox]

2 hours ago, Princess Dye said:

 

Unfortunate

[Jack Parkman]

I think that Kluber getting traded to the NL does more for the Sox chances of competing for the ALC title than adding Joc Pederson. Sox can find an OF elsewhere, while not having Kluber in the division is great news.

In short, Kluber to LAD>>>>>Pederson to Sox. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think that Kluber getting traded to the NL does more for the Sox chances of competing for the ALC title than adding Joc Pederson. Sox can find an OF elsewhere, while not having Kluber in the division is great news.

In short, Kluber to LAD>>>>>Pederson to Sox. 

Unless Santana can return to their rotation and stay healthy, but it also increases their outfield WAR by 2.5 - 3.  And they’d be getting a lot more back than Joc, If it was Verdugo (plus ?) instead and he blows up, the Indians really win that trade because it also frees up another big salary to reinvest in the bullpen or keeping Ramirez long-term.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Unless Santana can return to their rotation and stay healthy, but it also increases their outfield WAR by 2.5 - 3.  And they’d be getting a lot more back than Joc, If it was Verdugo (plus ?) instead and he blows up, the Indians really win that trade because it also frees up another big salary to reinvest in the bullpen or keeping Ramirez long-term.

Santana? You mean Salazar. Carlos Santana is a DH. I get what you're saying though. The fact remains that Salazar is incredibly injury prone, and Bauer only has two years left(including this one)  They still have Bieber too. I don't disagree that their rotation is still really damn good without Kluber, but Kluber is still better than everyone else on that pitching staff. 

Look to them for what the Sox staff could look like in a few years with Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Dunning and whomever fills out the 5th spot(Giolito/Rodon/Hansen) 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Santana? You mean Salazar. Carlos Santana is a DH. I get what you're saying though. The fact remains that Salazar is incredibly injury prone, and Bauer only has two years left(including this one)  They still have Bieber too. I don't disagree that their rotation is still really damn good without Kluber, but Kluber is still better than everyone else on that pitching staff. 

Clevinger is actually the one who improved the most last year.  By ERA+, Bauer was by far the best, Kluber second and Clevinger not far behind, then Carrasco and Bieber/Plutko.

It’s possible they try to make Salazar a closer with his nasty stuff and the obvious bullpen needs.  But you can also be sure they’re mulling a return to the rotation and then adding at the trade deadline with the financial flexibility derived from dumping so many high salaries (all bad contracts are gone but Kipnis, and he’s still capable of another 4-5 war year if you look at his track record.)

 

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Clevinger is actually the one who improved the most last year.  By ERA+, Bauer was by far the best, Kluber second and Clevinger not far behind, then Carrasco and Bieber/Plutko.

It’s possible they try to make Salazar a closer with his nasty stuff and the obvious bullpen needs.  But you can also be sure they’re mulling a return to the rotation and then adding at the trade deadline with the financial flexibility derived from dumping so many high salaries (all bad contracts are gone but Kipnis, and he’s still capable of another 4-5 war year if you look at his track record.)

 

Yeah Clevinger is really good too. I think they go with Bieber at #5 and Salazar at closer if he can stay on the mound, should Kluber get traded. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[iWiN4PreP]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:24 PM, bjchinn15 said:

Based on the rumored deal of Bummer, Fulmer and Rivera for Pederson; also with idea something holding it up and possibly Realmuto being culprit how likely is it Whitesox are trying to facilitate the three team trade and have interest is someone also from the Marlins? Although I have made quite a few fantasy baseball trades in my lifetime, I am no expert in real trade scenarios. So thoughts on Collins for Brinson? Is value there , granted lower value Brinson coming off his poor season; Could whitesox essentially get Brinson and Pederson to round out the Outfield with Eloy and Jay as Fourth OF all while giving up Bummer, Fulmer, Rivera, Collins, Delmonico ( to Dodgers if Verdugo goes to Marlins) just a thought and entertaining escape from the real world cold in the Midwest, I am in Florida sorry but I did have to wear a light jacket to work this morning, sorry that’s not fair I apologize! Have a good day everyone I am going back to lurking for next ten years

I don't think the Marlins will give up Brinson. They want to play him to their sure he's nothing.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

11 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I don't think the Marlins will give up Brinson. They want to play him to their sure he's nothing.

I'd love to buy low on Brinson.  But I don't think there's any way he gets traded.  

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I don't know if anyone (other than Jimmy) listen to the Sox in the Basement podcast (I recommend it), but they said they heard at SoxFest talking to some people that Blake Rutherford was the 3rd name discussed in potential Joc deal. Fulmer, Bummer, and Rutherford. 

[GermanSoxFan]

I'd hate giving up Rutherford for 2 years of Pederson.

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

I don't know if anyone (other than Jimmy) listen to the Sox in the Basement podcast (I recommend it), but they said they heard at SoxFest talking to some people that Blake Rutherford was the 3rd name discussed in potential Joc deal. Fulmer, Bummer, and Rutherford. 

I would hate that trade, if true.  I do not want to give up one of our top 5 outfield prospects for another outfielder that we will control for only two years. And we probably won't be competing quite yet during those two years.

I'd be fine with the Fulmer, Bummer, Laz rumor...but not Rutherford.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

I don't know if anyone (other than Jimmy) listen to the Sox in the Basement podcast (I recommend it), but they said they heard at SoxFest talking to some people that Blake Rutherford was the 3rd name discussed in potential Joc deal. Fulmer, Bummer, and Rutherford. 

Lol...I got scolded for throwing out a theoretical Rutherford for Joc trade (from a value standpoint), but I’d without doubt be pissed if we gave up all three of those guys for Joc unless they plan on adding both Machado & Keuchel.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I would hate that trade, if true.  I do not want to give up one of our top 5 outfield prospects for another outfielder that we will control for only two years. And we probably won't be competing quite yet during those two years.

I'd be fine with the Fulmer, Bummer, Laz rumor...but not Rutherford.

Laz vs Rutherford, yeah I don't really know who I would rather keep. The thing with Rutherford is that his prospect stock has been declining for a couple of years now. He was better in 2018 than 2017, but we are still looking at a kid who will turn 22 at the beginning of the season and still hasn't played above A+ yet. Not counting existing major leaguers, he's behind Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Basabe, Luis Gonzalez, maybe even Steele Walker soon. You are talking about our 6th or 7th best OF prospect. 

While Laz Rivera is lesser of a prospect right now, he's trending up and he's only behind.....Madrigal on our prospect lists for SS/2B. Yes we have Anderson and Moncada, but Laz could be a guy who replaces Yolmer in a couple of years if neccessary. Rutherford has a TON of competition.

I realize that being buried for us doesn't take away his value to other teams, but I think Rutherford would be a guy I would be ok losing. I don't know, it's not that much of a difference to me between him and Laz for our org.

[ChiSox59]

17 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

I'd hate giving up Rutherford for 2 years of Pederson.

Same.  I wouldn't trade Rutherford for Joc straight up. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by ChiSox59

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Same.  I wouldn't trade Rutherford to Joc straight up. 

Neither would I. Rutherford is still young and has upside still. 

[GermanSoxFan]

3 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Laz vs Rutherford, yeah I don't really know who I would rather keep. The thing with Rutherford is that his prospect stock has been declining for a couple of years now. He was better in 2018 than 2017, but we are still looking at a kid who will turn 22 at the beginning of the season and still hasn't played above A+ yet. Not counting existing major leaguers, he's behind Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Basabe, Luis Gonzalez, maybe even Steele Walker soon. You are talking about our 6th or 7th best OF prospect. 

While Laz Rivera is lesser of a prospect right now, he's trending up and he's only behind.....Madrigal on our prospect lists for SS/2B. Yes we have Anderson and Moncada, but Laz could be a guy who replaces Yolmer in a couple of years if neccessary. Rutherford has a TON of competition.

I realize that being buried for us doesn't take away his value to other teams, but I think Rutherford would be a guy I would be ok losing. I don't know, it's not that much of a difference to me between him and Laz for our org.

 

By that logic, Laz is going to turn 25 this year and hasn't played above A+- Rutherford had a nice bounceback season at an age appropriate level.

He also has a 6-3 frame he can add to. Rivera is most likely org filler, Rutherford could become a ML regular.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Same.  I wouldn't trade Rutherford for Joc straight up. 

Well that I find absolutely ridiculous. Where do you possibly rank Rutherford among our top 7 OF prospects???

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Laz vs Rutherford, yeah I don't really know who I would rather keep. The thing with Rutherford is that his prospect stock has been declining for a couple of years now. He was better in 2018 than 2017, but we are still looking at a kid who will turn 22 at the beginning of the season and still hasn't played above A+ yet. Not counting existing major leaguers, he's behind Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Basabe, Luis Gonzalez, maybe even Steele Walker soon. You are talking about our 6th or 7th best OF prospect. 

While Laz Rivera is lesser of a prospect right now, he's trending up and he's only behind.....Madrigal on our prospect lists for SS/2B. Yes we have Anderson and Moncada, but Laz could be a guy who replaces Yolmer in a couple of years if neccessary. Rutherford has a TON of competition.

I realize that being buried for us doesn't take away his value to other teams, but I think Rutherford would be a guy I would be ok losing. I don't know, it's not that much of a difference to me between him and Laz for our org.

I agree that Rutherford is a guy I would be OK losing. But not for 2 years of Joc Pederson.  I'd trade him a significant piece of deal to get a controllable SP.  But not 2 years of control of Joc Pederson when the Sox are still unlikely to be competitive. 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

6 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

 

By that logic, Laz is going to turn 25 this year and hasn't played above A+- Rutherford had a nice bounceback season at an age appropriate level.

He also has a 6-3 frame he can add to. Rivera is most likely org filler, Rutherford could become a ML regular.

I addressed "that logic" when I referred to their prospects status. Rutherford is ranked more highly than Laz, and that's almost exclusively due to age and draft pedigree. Because numbers wise, Laz has been better.

 

EDIT: Also, Laz will be 24 through the entirety of 2019 season, not 25.

Edited February 7, 2019 by ChiliIrishHammock24

[ChiSox59]

Just now, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Well that I find absolutely ridiculous. Where do you possibly rank Rutherford among our top 7 OF prospects???

The ranking among our OF prospects is somewhat irrelevant.  He do have an abundance of good OF prospects, but that doesn't mean we should sell low on them.  As I just said in the post above, I'd be fine moving Rutherford in a deal, but not in a deal for a guy with 2 years of control in a window that is unlikely for hte team the be competitive.

And to answer your question, I would put him 4th or 5th.  Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Rutherford/Basabe, Gonzalez.  I think Rutherford, Basabe and Gonzalez are on about equal footing in terms of future value IMO, though I am not saying they are comparable players.