GREEDY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said: So your definition of a few million dollars more is... Joc Pederson, 2 years ... say $13mm ... and you trade a mid-level prospect or someone like Fulmer, Bush v. Pollock, 3-4 years at $45-65mm ... and you have to give a compensation pick up which is likely more valuable at this time than Fulmer, Bush or any mid-level prospect we'd give up to acquire Joc. Got it. I'm here when you want to admit you're wrong. I don't understand how people here can prove Pederson is so valuable (which y'all convinced me of yesterday) but then turn around and say that his cost will only be Fulmer/Bush. I don't think you can have it both ways. If Joc is a slam dunk 3 win player, with evne more upside, then he is worth significantly more than the 13,000,000 you predict he will earn over the next two seasons. That seemingly would cost way more than the names being thrown around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, GREEDY said: I don't understand how people here can prove Pederson is so valuable (which y'all convinced me of yesterday) but then turn around and say that his cost will only be Fulmer/Bush. I don't think you can have it both ways. If Joc is a slam dunk 3 win player, with evne more upside, then he is worth significantly more than the 13,000,000 you predict he will earn over the next two seasons. That seemingly would cost way more than the names being thrown around here. Well he is already confirmed at 5 million and going to 8 million is a big arbitration bump........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, GREEDY said: I don't understand how people here can prove Pederson is so valuable (which y'all convinced me of yesterday) but then turn around and say that his cost will only be Fulmer/Bush. I don't think you can have it both ways. If Joc is a slam dunk 3 win player, with evne more upside, then he is worth significantly more than the 13,000,000 you predict he will earn over the next two seasons. That seemingly would cost way more than the names being thrown around here. The only way people got to that point was by saying that the Dodgers would rule out trading him to anyone who would possibly be competitive with them next year and that leaves only a weak team like the White Sox standing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_most_asgame.shtml Other than Pete Rose, Bill Freehan, a bunch of roiders and handful of players not yet inducted...you’re saying that I basically stated he would be in the Hall of Fame. Where did I state that in the thread I started...or anything in close proximity to it? Do you know how much you talk about losing Tatis as if he has already set the league on fire? Go ahead and search the site for how many times you have talked about him, it will be embarrassing for you. Go to bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: The only way people got to that point was by saying that the Dodgers would rule out trading him to anyone who would possibly be competitive with them next year and that leaves only a weak team like the White Sox standing. I mean there are tons of teams that aren't a real threat to the Dodgers. They aren't just going to give him away to be sure he doesn't come back to haunt them. But when I just spitballed that off the cuff 3 teamer, where the Sox would give up Nate Jones, Fulmer and Hansen the general consensus was "hell no". Nate Jones makes 4.5 million this season, making him nowhere near a slam dunk to reach value. And that leaves Fulmer and Hansen to make up what.... $35,000,000 in Joc's value above his contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, GREEDY said: I don't understand how people here can prove Pederson is so valuable (which y'all convinced me of yesterday) but then turn around and say that his cost will only be Fulmer/Bush. I don't think you can have it both ways. If Joc is a slam dunk 3 win player, with evne more upside, then he is worth significantly more than the 13,000,000 you predict he will earn over the next two seasons. That seemingly would cost way more than the names being thrown around here. It is likely he costs significantly more than people anticipate (I don't thinkt hat poster that through out basabe was wrong). The one way to mitigate that could be taking on salary from Rich Hill contract. Pederson is valuable right now, he will cost more than people think, it is a real debate whether that's a good move for sox. I think there is rightful worry that our talent acquisition hit its peak and will not be supplemented much from our draft classes and certainly not intl fa after 2 years sitting out. So trading from the surplus too early could pay out in a single playoff birth but its not necessarily hitting the "waves of talent, consistent competitor" goals laid out by hahn early in the rebuild. But, despite that I'm still on the fence. I think these things can pay off. To me he's an example of a player that could be on verge of taking off and even with two years it gives you benefits, including exclusive re-negotiating rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: Do you know how much you talk about losing Tatis as if he has already set the league on fire? Go ahead and search the site for how many times you have talked about him, it will be embarrassing for you. Go to bed Well, since we wouldn’t need to spend $300+ million on Manny Machado...it’s an issue preventing a lot of Sox fans from sleeping fitfully these days. Thanks for your sincere concern, though. I guess I am also singlehandedly responsible for influencing many to think Bryce Bush will have a similar career if traded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, GREEDY said: I don't understand how people here can prove Pederson is so valuable (which y'all convinced me of yesterday) but then turn around and say that his cost will only be Fulmer/Bush. I don't think you can have it both ways. If Joc is a slam dunk 3 win player, with evne more upside, then he is worth significantly more than the 13,000,000 you predict he will earn over the next two seasons. That seemingly would cost way more than the names being thrown around here. I'd expect if the deal happens it will be Fulmer and Basabae for Pederson and Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Moncada said: I'd expect if the deal happens it will be Fulmer and Basabae for Pederson and Hill Man I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Moncada said: I'd expect if the deal happens it will be Fulmer and Basabae for Pederson and Hill That sounds like one team is rebuilding and the other is in win-now mode. Except..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Well, since we wouldn’t need to spend $300+ million on Manny Machado...it’s an issue preventing a lot of Sox fans from sleeping fitfully these days. Thanks for your sincere concern, though. I guess I am also singlehandedly responsible for influencing many to think Bryce Bush will have a similar career if traded? Clearly that's all I said about you constantly bringing up Tatis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, GREEDY said: That sounds like one team is rebuilding and the other is in win-now mode. Except..... More like one team is trying to dump a massive salary and a potential all star level CF. Your gonna have to pay for that, and Fulmer has more or less been chalked up to as a loss by the Sox, so the value is mostly coming from the other prospect. I would expect it's gonna be a decent one bc a prospect reliever isn't worth Hill and Pederson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Rich Hill will not be traded. The reason we keep adding him into deals is cause we want him. Outside of Kershaw and probably Walker Buehler now, Rich Hill is their most valuable shut down type pitcher for the playoffs. I don't get why we keep adding him in on fake deals. Joc Pederson has value. Not sky high value though. He's a guy making $5mm in the arb process.. even with a nice year he'll be at like $8mm next year. Do you remember what Avi got offered this year? There you go.... Avi is a former all-star as well. Avi has the tools as well. Avi had nice exit velocity and flashes of power. Avi was non-tendered. Also, the Dodgers have OF's in waiting. They have Verdugo that can step right in. They'll sign Pollock if the rumors are correct on this Pederson/Pollock rumors. Then Bellinger in the OF as well. Teams are not knocking down doors to acquire Joc. The braves have some interest ... im sure others have interest... but he's not this hot commodity where we're giving up Hansen or Basabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 These Joc rumors are more interesting to me right now than Manny. No one knows what it will cost but if its a Basabe or Hansen caliber player I'd quickly pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: Joc Pederson has value. Not sky high value though. He's a guy making $5mm in the arb process.. even with a nice year he'll be at like $8mm next year. Do you remember what Avi got offered this year? There you go.... Avi is a former all-star as well. Avi has the tools as well. Avi had nice exit velocity and flashes of power. Avi was non-tendered. To be honest, Avi was the reason I initially undervalued Pederson yesterday. I kind of lumped the two players together. But that is wrong. Joc has been a 3 win player 3 out of 4 years. Avi did it once. The only thing in common they have is perceived upside and/or flashes of greatness. Pederson is way more valuable than people are giving him credit for here, and I think it would be a horrible mistake for the Sox to give up what it should require for what is essentially a stop-gap player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Taking on Rich Hill I assume would quickly move us to the front of the line of bidders on Joc. That likes has more value to the Dodgers than the mid tier prospects they’re gonna get anyway. Id personally prefer to hang onto Fulmer if possible, but it’s not like I think his inclusion is an overpay. I’d just rather give him another season before giving up. Joc + Hill (no money from LAD) Bummer + Lambert + Stephens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Another thing I'd add in this pursuit of Joc Pederson ... if the price is too high (I don't think it will be) then you can go out & look at someone like Carlos Gonzalez or Adam Jones, Not saying it's necessary at all. They'd both make the team a bit better, but don't think it's necessary. Both should be pretty affordable. Just saying there are a bunch of options out there that shouldn't cost the sox too much if that's the direction they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Why are the Dodgers trading Rich Hill? (don't say money) This is a team that's tied to Harper, and Pollock and bringing in Kluber... money is not an issue there. Plus who do they replace him with? Urias, Ryu? who? the rotation is full of injury prone guys. They want to caryy 6-7 guys as they did last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 33 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Well, since we wouldn’t need to spend $300+ million on Manny Machado... Well I don't think that's necessarily true. 1. It's assuming the White Sox would have figured out whatever the Padres did to turn him from a fringe int'l guy to a top prospect. 2. I'd still much rather have Manny Machado than Tatis at this point. They Sox are in on Bryce Harper as well and they don't necessarily 'need' him either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: Why are the Dodgers trading Rich Hill? (don't say money) This is a team that's tied to Harper, and Pollock and bringing in Kluber... money is not an issue there. Plus who do they replace him with? Urias, Ryu? who? the rotation is full of injury prone guys. They want to caryy 6-7 guys as they did last year. Money is a significant issue for the Dodgers if they want to add more FA. They have interest in Pollock, and most people think they're at least monitoring the Bryce market, and LAD is likely a preferred destination for Harper himself. They're bumping up against the luxury tax and moving Hill would allow them to add Pollock or maybe even Harper with some more maneuvering. Its been stated over and over again that LAD is going to do everything in their power to stay under the luxury tax this season. I am not saying the Dodgers are for sure interested in moving Hill, but it definitely makes a ton of sense. Edited January 22, 2019 by ChiSox59 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Money is a significant issue for the Dodgers if they want to add more FA. They have interest in Pollock, and most people think they're at least monitoring the Bryce market, and LAD is likely a preferred destination for Harper himself. They're bumping up against the luxury tax and moving Hill would allow them to add Pollock or maybe even Harper with some more maneuvering. Its been stated over and over again that LAD is going to do everything in their power to stay under the luxury tax this season. I am not saying the Dodgers are for sure interested in moving Hill, but it definitely makes a ton of sense. Bingo. It IS money, and it should be obvious why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Money is a significant issue for the Dodgers if they want to add more FA. They have interest in Pollock, and most people think they're at least monitoring the Bryce market, and LAD is likely a preferred destination for Harper himself. They're bumping up against the luxury tax and moving Hill would allow them to add Pollock or maybe even Harper with some more maneuvering. Its been stated over and over again that LAD is going to do everything in their power to stay under the luxury tax this season. I am not saying the Dodgers are for sure interested in moving Hill, but it definitely makes a ton of sense. Just wanted to publicly acknowledge I love this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Sox are not talking about acquiring Rich HIll. I think Hill is a great pitcher and fits the team well but he makes $19M and usually misses several starts. JR is going to surprise some people with his spending but acquiring Dick Mountain to pay him $1M a start in a year that's likely a transition year doesn't seem to be the type of a move a shrewd but conservative owner would get behind. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Anybody want to bet me they don't trade Rich Hill then? Send me a PM and we'll set up a gentleman's agreement and a PayPal exchange. $10. Keep it low value. You don't trade one of your most dangerous playoff shutdown pitchers when you're coming off back to back WS runs. Especially when the only available difference maker at the trade deadline is Bumgarner and on one of your rivals. You trade Puig's, Kemps of the world because they are relatively easy to replace. You trade away Homer Bailey, take on some of his salary and attach a prospect. you don't subtract from your current roster when you can't actively replace that position of need without spending more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Gload Fan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, raBBit said: Sox are not talking about acquiring Rich HIll. I think Hill is a great pitcher and fits the team well but he makes $19M and usually misses several starts. JR is going to surprise some people with his spending but acquiring Dick Mountain to pay him $1M a start in a year that's likely a transition year doesn't seem to be the type of a move a shrewd but conservative owner would get behind. Holy fuck, Dick Mountain ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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