raBBit Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: People werent really ready for what a rebuild meant. You dont start taking short cuts to maybe get 80-85 wins. Who is doing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The Cubs didn't trade 3 of the best assets in baseball to acquire their youth. They didn't trade for a plethora of already established MiLB prospects. They drafted well, made some FA signings, and a couple of great trade. Everyone who compares these two rebuilds completely ignores the fact that the White Sox had a head start given the assets they moved to acquire their talent. You mean while you ignore that the vast majority of the assets that the Sox acquired were years away from the majors, just like the Cubs? The Cubs exploited the international signings, which can't legally be done anymore. The Cubs also had a fan base that allowed them to spend more than the Sox ever will be able to. So yes, there are major differences here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: People werent really ready for what a rebuild meant. You dont start taking short cuts to maybe get 80-85 wins. Man do I hate these comments. No one is saying to take a shortcut. 85 wins, btw, could win the division. People are saying it's time to start adding MLB pieces to a team that is going to have a lot of youthful pieces coming up over the next 12 months. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: This is very important and way too often ignored here by the folks that look at things so black and white. I don't know how much worse it will be than 2018, and they had a 62 win team vs. the worst of the worst. So, it's fair to say that while they don't have as far to go as someone playing in the AL East to be really good, they have a really long road. It's a horrible baseball team that needs a lot to go right. Hopefully it will. Some are bound to improve. Hopefully to star status, but some we think can be great , aren't going to pan out. Then we will have the guys that got us to 78 wins, trying to acquire veterans to put the White Sox over the hump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: You should care less what the fans think and more what the front office thinks. From the moves they've made and are trying to make, they sure seem to be talking themselves into being competitive next year at the latest. As I have said a million times, the ONLY good reason for this is a whale. That changes things. Even with a whale this isn't a playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, southsider2k5 said: You mean while you ignore that the vast majority of the assets that the Sox acquired were years away from the majors, just like the Cubs? The Cubs exploited the international signings, which can't legally be done anymore. The Cubs also had a fan base that allowed them to spend more than the Sox ever will be able to. So yes, there are major differences here. The Cubs drafted phenomenally, which sped up their rebuild. The Sox rebuild could be significantly improved right now, but their first round picks have been a disaster (Fulmer, Collins, Burger). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Man do I hate these comments. No one is saying to take a shortcut. 85 wins, btw, could win the division. People are saying it's time to start adding MLB pieces to a team that is going to have a lot of youthful pieces coming up over the next 12 months. Eloy and who else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, southsider2k5 said: As I have said a million times, the ONLY good reason for this is a whale. That changes things. Even with a whale this isn't a playoff team. and I agree with this, and that if Machado and Harper go elsewhere, there is no reason Hahn should keep his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, GREEDY said: https://www.mlb.com/video/hot-stove-rick-hahn/c-2520857783 I can't watch at work but the whole offseason is about one year deals. Their commitment to the longterm is evident by them keeping flexibility with the group of marginal players they acquired with one year/two year deals. It's about flexibility and opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, fathom said: and I agree with this, and that if Machado and Harper go elsewhere, there is no reason Hahn should keep his job. I said from the beginning that it was a dumb idea to have a rebuild done by the same people who were unable to develop young talent for the last decade. But that is in the past now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You mean while you ignore that the vast majority of the assets that the Sox acquired were years away from the majors, just like the Cubs? The Cubs exploited the international signings, which can't legally be done anymore. The Cubs also had a fan base that allowed them to spend more than the Sox ever will be able to. So yes, there are major differences here. Years away? As I have noted, their 4 MAIN assets, were AA and AAA ready players. They were all less than two years from MLB ready. Eloy - ready last year. Cease - ready this year. Kopech - ready last year. Moncada - ready two years ago. The Sox could spend however much they want. The argument otherwise is absurd. MLB is swimming in cash, the White Sox as well. They have plenty of money to spend. They use to run payrolls in the top 5 of baseball - they are capable of doing it. Don't buy the small market nonsense. The Cubs have a bigger following outside the Chicago Metro area, but in this area the city is split (AT WORST) 55/45. The Sox aren't a small market team. Edited January 24, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 @ChiliIrishHammock24 WHAT DO YOU KNOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: How is Pollock much more valuable than Pederson? Since Pederson has entered the league he's accumulated 10.1 WAR in 4 years, in that same window Pollock has accumulated 12 WAR. Pollock is 3 years older, and hasn't been healthy for a full season since 2015. Agreed on all points, but Pollock is about 5 years older than Joc. Which actually further enhances your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, fathom said: I'm a big fan of cashing in on Rutherford now if other teams are buying him as a legit top 100 prospect still. Don't forget the Marlins front office has a lot of people that drafted him, so they might either really like him or dislike him. The reason to cash in on Rutherford now is because Birmingham doesn't seem like it will be kind to his slugging pct. Great point fathom. I don’t know how I’d feel about dealing for him for Joc, but if you feel his value has peaked you definitely deal him now. The idea of holding onto all your prospects is a bit foolish, because some of them will most definitely bust and smart organizations capitalize on their value while they can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, raBBit said: I can't watch at work but the whole offseason is about one year deals. Their commitment to the longterm is evident by them keeping flexibility with the group of marginal players they acquired with one year/two year deals. It's about flexibility and opportunity. But some of those 1-year deal guys are for veterans with very low ceilings that are likely to take away at bats from the younger guys that you might have wanted to give at bats to (i.e.Jay and Alonso instead of Palka and Delmonico). Again, I'm beyond fine with these moves if it means Machado. If not, it will be a giant mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, Sockin said: @ChiliIrishHammock24 WHAT DO YOU KNOW Is Joey, Chilli? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This is 100% the truth. People begged for a rebuild, and two years later are sick of the rebuild and abandoning the team in droves, just like I predicted. Now they are wanting to waste assets for marginal gain in years where they have no chance in competing. This way of thinking is erroneous. Rebuilds aren't linear or equal. Our rebuild doesn't need to take 5 years to complete because of other teams. We started ahead of many other rebuilds by having elite talent to trade on great deals. We've tanked for two years to get top picks and signed an International star in Robert. Year three isn't about signing guys to simply win 85 games. Year three is about letting our future core get a taste of winning games and learning how to compete. Year three is also about bringing in talent cheaper than normal because of the current market. We can win this division next year because it flat out sucks. The Tigers and Royals will be pushovers compared to us, and the Twins and Indians will become the team we previously were (old and mediocre). There is no reason for us to draw out this rebuild just to feel like we are building from the ground up "the correct way". There is no correct way, as tanking and slowly building a roster fails more than it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, cjgalloway said: Is Joey, Chilli? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This is 100% the truth. People begged for a rebuild, and two years later are sick of the rebuild and abandoning the team in droves, just like I predicted. Now they are wanting to waste assets for marginal gain in years where they have no chance in competing. With additional moves (which are happening), the Sox have a chance to compete if things go well given the horseshit division they're. What assets have they wasted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 You guys realize that this is going to go down as "JoeyDoughnuts" broke the Machado news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Years away? As I have noted, their 4 MAIN assets, were AA and AAA ready players. They were all less than two years from MLB ready. Eloy - ready last year. Cease - ready this year. Kopech - ready last year. Moncada - ready two years ago. The Sox could spend however much they want. The argument otherwise is absurd. MLB is swimming in cash, the White Sox as well. They have plenty of money to spend. They use to run payrolls in the top 5 of baseball - they are capable of doing it. Don't buy the small market nonsense. The Cubs have a bigger following outside the Chicago Metro area, but in this area the city is split (AT WORST) 55/45. The Sox aren't a small market team. I don't even know where to start with this. Kopech was not READY last year. Cease will not be READY this year. Moncada still isn't READY today. That is 100% not true. Making your major league debut is not READY. Both Kopech and Cease are under innings limitations to start with. Moncada has always The rest of that post is 100% wishful thinking and false memories. At least deal with me in reality. Otherwise this conversation is a waste. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Eloy and who else? In the next twelve months? Some of the following names better be making appearances or pushing their way into the conversation: Cease Robert Madrigal Dunning Collins Zavala The expected arrivals for 18 of the top 30 was 2018 or 2019 - some got pushed back due to injury, or lack of progress - but if we're talking 2020 before the majority of these guys even make an appearance then that's a problem - given that it will be year 3 of Moncada already, Timmy will be nearing the end of his deal, Kopech will be without two years, and Eloy will be 3 years closer to his exit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: But some of those 1-year deal guys are for veterans with very low ceilings that are likely to take away at bats from the younger guys that you might have wanted to give at bats to (i.e.Jay and Alonso instead of Palka and Delmonico). Again, I'm beyond fine with these moves if it means Machado. If not, it will be a giant mess. I don't like the Alonso move unless it really made a difference to getting Machado and Sox got him. Jay is a professional outfielder and the type of player we always lack and makes a pittance. I don't care about Delmonico's future but Palka is worth considering and it's unclear how they'll handle him. Colome and Herrera are both flexible pieces that could be utilized if the Sox are good and traded if the Sox are bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, GREEDY said: You guys realize that this is going to go down as "JoeyDoughnuts" broke the Machado news. Certainly an upgrade to katyperrybootyhole or whatever the hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, GREEDY said: You guys realize that this is going to go down as "JoeyDoughnuts" broke the Machado news. God I hope not, hope it's the Harper news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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