Chisoxfn Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I very much disagree with the notion that the Bears are or should be anywhere close to blowing this up. If you put a pro-bowl QB on this team as-is, IMO they're right there with the Packers. They're top 6 in PPG given up by that defense, and that's with literally no help from the offense so the D has extra pressure on them. They have playmakers on offense, but they're being put in terrible positions and the QB isn't helping at all. I agree with you completely (and I do think because of that...how the Bears finish is important...cause this place could get super toxic or they could gain some momentum for next season and get back some swagger). If they ran a game plan like this past week, they would have already won a game or two more, imo. About time they ran the freaking football and actually put together an offensive game plan that aligned to the teams strength (its defense). I also think that would have put Mitch in a better place to improve...but that is just as much on Mitch than anyone else. They clearly mis-scouted how "advanced" they thought Mitch was based upon training camp/off-season practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Chisoxfn said: If they ran a game plan like this past week, they would have already won a game or two more, imo. About time they ran the freaking football and actually put together an offensive game plan that aligned to the teams strength (its defense). I also think that would have put Mitch in a better place to improve...but that is just as much on Mitch than anyone else. They clearly mis-scouted how "advanced" they thought Mitch was based upon training camp/off-season practices. Not just mis-scouting, it's the coaching staff's literal job to figure out how to harness the talent in that QB and they're failing at that part of their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: I feel like the Bears made a lot of moves including trading for Mack on the basis that Trubisky was going to be good. He only isn't good, but really bad. I feel like they are closer to blowing the whole thing up and starting over. I wonder if they would trade Mack, you probably aren't getting two first round picks, but you might get a 1st and a 2nd. This would be the year to get a ton of draft picks and move up in the first round. I just wouldn't trust Pace to do it. Any team that drafts a rookie QB should do exactly what the bears did (at least in salary terms), it sucks that it didn't work out but you should take advantage of the rookie qb contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 This new game plan only scored 16 points against the Chargers, which is not a good defense. 16 points should not really be expected to win games. While there are some high profile recent QBs struggling along with Mitch, only Baker really has an offense close in talent and coaching consistency. It feels like 2/3s of the Qbs in the league have been from 2016, and he's in the bottom tier in performance, now getting outplayed by Daniel Jones, Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, not even just the top guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, soxfan49 said: The funny thing is: First they asked him about running it for another yard or two and he said no because of a potential loss or a fumble. He then ranted on how even before the 22 yard run, they were in FG position. Then they asked about a pass and he laughed it off and said no because of a sack or fumble. Dude, if you thought you were in position before a 22 yard run, did you think you would be out of it after a 5-8 yard sack? He's a fucking moron sometimes. Nagy deserves flak for a lot of decisions this year but Bears fans are looking into the kneel down far too much. The difference between make and miss at 36-38 yards and 41 is microscopic - it's probably more likely that a penalty or turnover kills them than the 3-5 yards helps. It's really obvious that Nagy doesn't trust mitch but can you blame him? He's sitting at the podium defending his decision while his QB was turning it over twice late on his side of the field. It's really tough to evaluate a coach with an incompetent QB. Nagy may not be the answer, but it's not because he kneeled down to kick a 41 yarder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 The QB and O-Line are too bad to get any kind of idea what Matt Nagy is and isn't doing, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, MexSoxFan#1 said: In no way am I defending Trubisky, he has been really bad but I firmly believe Nagy is the bigger problem between the two. His playcalling is atrocious, the only bright spot is the defense and even that he's affecting negatively with his offense going 3 and out so often. I would get rid of both Pace and Nagy and have Trubisky develop under another coach before we close the book on him. My two cents. This is just pure nonsense. It's clear the QB doesn't know how to read defenses, audible into the right play and etc. The excuses for Mitch need to stop. Players are significantly more responsible for on the field outcomes than coaches. Mitch has been put into a pass friendly system but his accuracy is terrible. Saying you'd get rid of Nagy and keep Trubisky is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I don't think Josh Allen has shown he is better than Mitch. Not at all. Mitch is in the same boat as basically every QB drafted the past 2-3 years, not named Mahomes / Watson at this point. Think about that for a second before people talk in such absolutes about Mitch (and this is from one of the posters who refused to say he was special last year when a bunch of people talked more confidently about him...but I believe it is in the Bears best interests to get him right (this year). Backs to the wall...Bears played their best offensive game of the season (not counting that Redskins game cause it was the Skins)...unfortunately, they had 2 costly 4th quarter turnovers, 2 missed field goals, and 4 piss poor red zone performances. Lamar Jackson is light years better than Trubisky and he was drafted a year after with the 32nd pick. Mitch is just bad. The excuses need to end. I've always said if you spend your days making excuses for your QB then you're QB isn't very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Nagy deserves flak for a lot of decisions this year but Bears fans are looking into the kneel down far too much. The difference between make and miss at 36-38 yards and 41 is microscopic - it's probably more likely that a penalty or turnover kills them than the 3-5 yards helps. It's really obvious that Nagy doesn't trust mitch but can you blame him? He's sitting at the podium defending his decision while his QB was turning it over twice late on his side of the field. It's really tough to evaluate a coach with an incompetent QB. Nagy may not be the answer, but it's not because he kneeled down to kick a 41 yarder. 36-38 and centered vs 41 off-center when your kicker already missed from 35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, bmags said: Any team that drafts a rookie QB should do exactly what the bears did (at least in salary terms), it sucks that it didn't work out but you should take advantage of the rookie qb contract. 100%. Pace took a shot and it didn't work out. I think it would be better if they just admitted that and started over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 anyway hopefully Mitch will server as a lesson for scouts in the future that "well we only have 13 college games to judge him by, lots of raw potential!!!" is actually a gigantic red flag and you shouldn't draft someone who's barely played outside of high school, let alone trade up for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, StrangeSox said: 36-38 and centered vs 41 off-center when your kicker already missed from 35 This isn't college. I would guess they put the ball on the hash that their kicker preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 44 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I very much disagree with the notion that the Bears are or should be anywhere close to blowing this up. If you put a pro-bowl QB on this team as-is, IMO they're right there with the Packers. They're top 6 in PPG given up by that defense, and that's with literally no help from the offense so the D has extra pressure on them. They have playmakers on offense, but they're being put in terrible positions and the QB isn't helping at all. The defense is still good, but it's already behind what they did last year and they are probably going to lose some more players next year and don't have the draft picks and cap space to easily replace them. If they had a pro-bowl or elite qb, yeah they would be better, but they don't and those type of qb's aren't just sitting around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: The defense is still good, but it's already behind what they did last year and they are probably going to lose some more players next year and don't have the draft picks and cap space to easily replace them. If they had a pro-bowl or elite qb, yeah they would be better, but they don't and those type of qb's aren't just sitting around. I mean they just gave up 220 yards of offense. Theyve been pretty great given the weight they're carrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: This isn't college. I would guess they put the ball on the hash that their kicker preferred. 4 yards closer and the late hook on the kick means it's still good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: 4 yards closer and the late hook on the kick means it's still good He may have played the kick differently from the middle and missed all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: 4 yards closer and the late hook on the kick means it's still good This shouldn't be how you evaluate the decision. They could have not kneeled, ran and fumbled. There are a lot of variables to evaluate. The Bears didn't lose because they kneeled down. They lost because their QB can't hit open receivers and turned the ball over twice in a row late. They lost because their QB looks so lost in the red zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) sure, he could miss a 20 yard chip shot too I guess you'd need to dive down into win probabilities to see the risk/reward of getting say 3 yards closer and centering the ball (or putting it exactly wherever the kicker wants it) vs. the chance of losing yards or even a fumble. still don't think the kneel-down is the right call or defensible though Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: This shouldn't be how you evaluate the decision. They could have not kneeled, ran and fumbled. There are a lot of variables to evaluate. The Bears didn't lose because they kneeled down. They lost because their QB can't hit open receivers and turned the ball over twice in a row late. They lost because their QB looks so lost in the red zone. but also, they lost because their kicker missed two FG's including one as time expired Edited October 28, 2019 by StrangeSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 47 minutes ago, bmags said: This new game plan only scored 16 points against the Chargers, which is not a good defense. 16 points should not really be expected to win games. While there are some high profile recent QBs struggling along with Mitch, only Baker really has an offense close in talent and coaching consistency. It feels like 2/3s of the Qbs in the league have been from 2016, and he's in the bottom tier in performance, now getting outplayed by Daniel Jones, Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, not even just the top guys. I don't expect most teams put up that sort of TD% in the red zone. Yes, it was the facts of the game, but if they put up half of those as TD's you are taking a step in the right direction. Again, I'm purely pointing at progress...not at all saying they are good or anything along those lines. Directionally speaking, I could see some positive steps forward from an offensive perspective (that said...they are literally the worst offense in the league so they only have one direction to go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I mean they just gave up 220 yards of offense. Theyve been pretty great given the weight they're carrying. Raiders ran all over them. The Saints with a back up QB and back up RB put up 31 points on them, in Chicago. They are still a really good defense, just not sure they are the unstoppable force they were last year. Top defense last year, top 5 defense this year, next year top 10 maybe. It's had to sustain dominant defenses in the modern NFL. Seahawks had one of the better defenses of the past 20 years or so and it was done within 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: Raiders ran all over them. The Saints with a back up QB and back up RB put up 31 points on them, in Chicago. They are still a really good defense, just not sure they are the unstoppable force they were last year. Top defense last year, top 5 defense this year, next year top 10 maybe. It's had to sustain dominant defenses in the modern NFL. Seahawks had one of the better defenses of the past 20 years or so and it was done within 5 years. The defense appears to be defeated in a way. The saints game was just a downward spiral for them - their frustrations with their offensive side of the ball seemed to spill over defensively. Not excusing them but I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 hours ago, bmags said: it's never an attractive job to bring in a GM and say " you have to keep the coach" It happens all the time. So what? 2 hours ago, MexSoxFan#1 said: In no way am I defending Trubisky, he has been really bad but I firmly believe Nagy is the bigger problem between the two. His playcalling is atrocious, the only bright spot is the defense and even that he's affecting negatively with his offense going 3 and out so often. I would get rid of both Pace and Nagy and have Trubisky develop under another coach before we close the book on him. My two cents. There were consistently guys open yesterday. Is Reid at fault for the Chiefs only scoring 24 yesterday? No, the QB stinks. When Mahomes gets back, it's a great offense. Guys were open. The QB is horrendous. Even on the goal line yesterday, yes Nagy wasn't great but Trubisky threw fucking sidearm to a gigantic TE. How is that Nagy's fault? Trubisky is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, soxfan49 said: It happens all the time. So what? Don't you want it to be successful? When was the last time it ended up working out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Nagy deserves flak for a lot of decisions this year but Bears fans are looking into the kneel down far too much. The difference between make and miss at 36-38 yards and 41 is microscopic - it's probably more likely that a penalty or turnover kills them than the 3-5 yards helps. It's really obvious that Nagy doesn't trust mitch but can you blame him? He's sitting at the podium defending his decision while his QB was turning it over twice late on his side of the field. It's really tough to evaluate a coach with an incompetent QB. Nagy may not be the answer, but it's not because he kneeled down to kick a 41 yarder. It's about a 3% better chance he makes the kick, so yeah, not huge but still a difference (86.9% vs 84.3%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, bmags said: Don't you want it to be successful? When was the last time it ended up working out? Seems to be doing fine in Green Bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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