NFL Thread 2019-2020

[soxfan49]

37 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Depends on the turnover situation. Last night, neither team turned the ball over until Trubisky tried to make something happen late. 

Then I guess it doesn't depend on the turnover situation. The Bears forced 0 against Green Bay and still held them to 10 points. If they can do that vs that QB and that OL (which isn't great but much better than Denver's), it's possible.

 

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 My friend who knows more about football than me, is absolutely convinced the league is catching up to Nagy’s offense.

That's my fear. It's probably too early to make that judgement but the last 6 games have been brutal 

[Soxfest]

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 My friend who knows more about football than me, is absolutely convinced the league is catching up to Nagy’s offense.

I think that is a fair assessment, his tendencies are all on tape now.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Soxfest

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, Soxfest said:

I think that is a fair assessment, his tendencies are all on tape now.

Nagy should be able to adapt and get Mitch in position to roll out and get a bunched up backfield of some kind to run the ball up the gut and off tackle. The i formation isn’t dead even if they have no fullback.

[nickofypres]

 

 

 

 

2

8 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This whole thing was doomed to fail. Trubisky was a project. He was drafted 2nd overall. Both are facts. Because of (1), (2) should have never happened. Pace has done a wonderful job with the rest of the team, but he missed with the QB. Badly. He's Jerry Angelo. Don't let him stick around as long as Jerry did. He shouldn't get that many chances. If this team wins fewer than 9 games Pace should be fired. It is inexcusable to waste this defense on Mitch. It's a fireable offense, really. They owe it to Mack to trade him after this season. He's never winning anything here if Mitch continues to suck. 

 

Look, I'm over Mitch too but this is a huge stretch. Pace is a much better GM than JA. 

[soxfan49]

8 hours ago, nickofypres said:

 

Look, I'm over Mitch too but this is a huge stretch. Pace is a much better GM than JA. 

I totally missed this. Comparing Pace to Angelo after 1 loss. What a fucking dumb fan base. Unreal

[Quin]

Gruden's tenure in Oakland is amazing.

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

I totally missed this. Comparing Pace to Angelo after 1 loss. What a fucking dumb fan base. Unreal

I'd argue Angelo was better. He built a top defense that would end up lasting a decade. The only guys he inherited were Urlacher and Mike Brown, and both were s drafted the season prior to him taking over. Pace has built a great defense, but it's only going to last for 3-5 years. Jerry had a lot of time to find a QB, didn't get it done. Pace doesn't have that luxury. Jerry was GM of the Bears for 11 seasons and completely wasted a group with possibly 4 HOF on defense for a large chunk of that time. (Tillman is the borderline guy, Urlacher, Peppers and Briggs are locks IMO) Pace built this team from scratch pretty quickly. Eddie Jackson and Roquan Smith are really good players, but they're too young to know if they're HOF. Leonard Floyd is nice, but he's going to be gone because of Mack. Not a special player though. Fuller's really good(and the one player Pace inherited), not a HOF. Jerry Angelo was GM for 11 years for a reason. He got to see out the entire shelf life of his incredible defense he built. I think that was a mistake. This defense is in the same spot, with the Mack acquisition that the Urlacher/Briggs/Tillman group was when Angelo signed Peppers. They're toward the end of their prime. They have to win this year or next year. That's the window. If Pace wastes this year, he should be gone. If Mitch sucks, nothing is going to happen with this group. I'd feel much better if Mack was 24 instead of 28. In that case, I'd be willing to give Pace more time, like Angelo got. But not much longer. 

Angelo's failure was never finding a QB, and Lovie's failure was not knowing the difference between an offensive mind and his asshole. When Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman were healthy, The Bears had a top 10 D. Angelo GMed a team to a SB appearance, and won 3 playoff games. Pace has had one PO appearance and zero wins. Right now, Angelo has the better Resume. Lovie Smith has the 3rd most wins at HC in Bears history, after Halas and Ditka. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[nickofypres]

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd argue Angelo was better. He built a top defense that would end up lasting a decade. The only guys he inherited were Urlacher and Mike Brown, and both were s drafted the season prior to him taking over. Pace has built a great defense, but it's only going to last for 3-5 years. Jerry had a lot of time to find a QB, didn't get it done. Pace doesn't have that luxury. Jerry was GM of the Bears for 11 seasons and completely wasted a group with possibly 4 HOF on defense for a large chunk of that time. (Tillman is the borderline guy, Urlacher, Peppers and Briggs are locks IMO) Pace built this team from scratch pretty quickly. Eddie Jackson and Roquan Smith are really good players, but they're too young to know if they're HOF. Leonard Floyd is nice, but he's going to be gone because of Mack. Not a special player though. Fuller's really good(and the one player Pace inherited), not a HOF. Jerry Angelo was GM for 11 years for a reason. He got to see out the entire shelf life of his incredible defense he built. I think that was a mistake. This defense is in the same spot, with the Mack acquisition that the Urlacher/Briggs/Tillman group was when Angelo signed Peppers. They're toward the end of their prime. They have to win this year or next year. That's the window. If Pace wastes this year, he should be gone. If Mitch sucks, nothing is going to happen with this group. I'd feel much better if Mack was 24 instead of 28. In that case, I'd be willing to give Pace more time, like Angelo got. But not much longer. 

Angelo's failure was never finding a QB, and Lovie's failure was not knowing the difference between offensive mind and his asshole. When Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman were healthy, The Bears had a top 10 D. Angelo GMed a team to a SB appearance, and won 3 playoff games. Pace has had one PO appearance and zero wins. Right now, Angelo has the better Resume. 

I feel like JA's biggest downfall was that he never drafted/signed or had any real depth on the roster. I could be wrong though. But you're saying JA is better because in 10 years he accomplished more than Pace has in 4?

JA's 4th year as a GM the Bears only had 1 playoff appearance (2001), Pace's 4th year we have one playoff appearance (2018). I'm not saying Pace is infallible or anything but it's way too early to can Pace is they don't make the playoffs. 

Under Jerry Angelo, the team didn't even win a playoff game until 2006, their third time in the dance since he had taken over.

 

 

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

47 minutes ago, nickofypres said:

I feel like JA's biggest downfall was that he never drafted/signed or had any real depth on the roster. I could be wrong though. But you're saying JA is better because in 10 years he accomplished more than Pace has in 4?

JA's 4th year as a GM the Bears only had 1 playoff appearance (2001), Pace's 4th year we have one playoff appearance (2018). I'm not saying Pace is infallible or anything but it's way too early to can Pace is they don't make the playoffs. 

Under Jerry Angelo, the team didn't even win a playoff game until 2006, their third time in the dance since he had taken over.

 

 

 

 

Jerry was hired in 2001. They had a metric shit ton of injuries in 2002. He made the playoffs his first year. Lovie was his first(and only) HC hire.  Mark Hatley was the GM in 2000 when Urlacher and Brown were drafted. IIRC Jerry got fired after 2011, Lovie after 2012.  

Jerry's problem was that he traded Marty Booker for Ogunleye and was never able to find receivers again, and he couldn't find a QB. Picking Muhammad over Burress was beyond dumb. (This isn't even hindsight, I wanted Burress then) 

the core players on that defense were there from 2003-2013. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd argue Angelo was better. He built a top defense that would end up lasting a decade. The only guys he inherited were Urlacher and Mike Brown, and both were s drafted the season prior to him taking over. Pace has built a great defense, but it's only going to last for 3-5 years. Jerry had a lot of time to find a QB, didn't get it done. Pace doesn't have that luxury. Jerry was GM of the Bears for 11 seasons and completely wasted a group with possibly 4 HOF on defense for a large chunk of that time. (Tillman is the borderline guy, Urlacher, Peppers and Briggs are locks IMO) Pace built this team from scratch pretty quickly. Eddie Jackson and Roquan Smith are really good players, but they're too young to know if they're HOF. Leonard Floyd is nice, but he's going to be gone because of Mack. Not a special player though. Fuller's really good(and the one player Pace inherited), not a HOF. Jerry Angelo was GM for 11 years for a reason. He got to see out the entire shelf life of his incredible defense he built. I think that was a mistake. This defense is in the same spot, with the Mack acquisition that the Urlacher/Briggs/Tillman group was when Angelo signed Peppers. They're toward the end of their prime. They have to win this year or next year. That's the window. If Pace wastes this year, he should be gone. If Mitch sucks, nothing is going to happen with this group. I'd feel much better if Mack was 24 instead of 28. In that case, I'd be willing to give Pace more time, like Angelo got. But not much longer. 

Angelo's failure was never finding a QB, and Lovie's failure was not knowing the difference between offensive mind and his asshole. When Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman were healthy, The Bears had a top 10 D. Angelo GMed a team to a SB appearance, and won 3 playoff games. Pace has had one PO appearance and zero wins. Right now, Angelo has the better Resume. 

Dude you're going to be backtracking on this take within a week. You're going to blame it on how quickly you jump to conclusions. This is maybe you're worst take yet.

Pace took over an old and complete horseshit roster and within a few years they were a kicker away from a deep playoff run. He traded for Mack. He signed Hicks and Amukamara. Look at the players he has drafted since taking over- Amos, Goldman, Jackson, Cohen, Bush, Whitehair, Floyd, Howard. I'm not ready to jump on Smith, Daniels, Nichols, Wims. Montgomery, etc because no one knows how good they'll be.

I think you're underestimating how bad that roster was. Besides Jeffery, Long and Fuller, Emery was a complete disaster.

No shit Angelo's resume is better. He had 11 years, and fwiw, 3 playoff wins in 11 years is horrific. Give Pace time.

I can't believe how fast this fan base has changed their minds. They lost against the Packers in brutal fashion, I get it, but a week ago everyone was predicting at least a playoff berth. Relax

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Dude you're going to be backtracking on this take within a week. You're going to blame it on how quickly you jump to conclusions. This is maybe you're worst take yet.

Pace took over an old and complete horseshit roster and within a few years they were a kicker away from a deep playoff run. He traded for Mack. He signed Hicks and Amukamara. Look at the players he has drafted since taking over- Amos, Goldman, Jackson, Cohen, Bush, Whitehair, Floyd, Howard. I'm not ready to jump on Smith, Daniels, Nichols, Wims. Montgomery, etc because no one knows how good they'll be.

I think you're underestimating how bad that roster was. Besides Jeffery, Long and Fuller, Emery was a complete disaster.

No shit Angelo's resume is better. He had 11 years, and fwiw, 3 playoff wins in 11 years is horrific. Give Pace time.

I can't believe how fast this fan base has changed their minds. They lost against the Packers in brutal fashion, I get it, but a week ago everyone was predicting at least a playoff berth. Relax

Lovie is 3rd in Bears history in wins by a HC, btw. There are a lot of good pieces on this defense that are young, but they're going to lose some of them. 

Yes, When Pace took over the Bears had the worst talent pool in the NFL. There's no denying that. He's done an excellent job outside of QB. The QB issue will sink this team if Mitch sucks. He bet his job on Mitch. If Trubisky goes down in flames, Pace should go with him. I think Angelo sticking as long as he did was a mistake. he should have been fired after 2008. I know it's hard to fire someone after a winning season, but I had seen enough at that point. They're going to have Roquan Smith and Eddie Jackson for a while. They're in their 2nd and 3rd year respectively. They can't let either of them get away. The concern is that Hicks and Mack are toward the end of their prime right now. They're 28. The dropoff is coming. It's just a fact of life in football.  Pace is much better on the offensive side than Angelo was, I don't deny that. The argument is, after putting his job on the line with Trubisky, by trading what he did for him, does he get another crack at the QB position? I'm not sure I want him picking another QB, and right now I lean toward no. Pace is a good GM. I really like what he's done outside of QB. There are two gripes I have with him: 1) QB Evaluation(Glennon and Trubisky look really bad right now) and 2) Trading draft picks like candy(Mack was ok, I'm talking about other ones) I don't mind #2 as much when you get a solid player or better, but eventually that catches up with you depth wise. 

The jury's still hung on Mitch, but 8 out of 12 jurors think he sucks. I'm willing to give Trubisky until week 10-12. This is a make or break year for him. He has to show as much improvement as he did last year from week to week. Otherwise, he's just bad. I haven't written him off completely yet. Thursday night was incredibly disappointing to the fanbase on so many levels, hence the hot takes. Forgive everyone. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Lovie is 3rd in Bears history in wins by a HC, btw. There are a lot of good pieces on this defense that are young, but they're going to lose some of them. 

Yes, When Pace took over the Bears had the worst talent pool in the NFL. There's no denying that. He's done an excellent job outside of QB. The QB issue will sink this team if Mitch sucks. He bet his job on Mitch. If Trubisky goes down in flames, Pace should go with him. I think Angelo sticking as long as he did was a mistake. he should have been fired after 2008. I know it's hard to fire someone after a winning season, but I had seen enough at that point. They're going to have Roquan Smith and Eddie Jackson for a while. They're in their 2nd and 3rd year respectively. They can't let either of them get away. The concern is that Hicks and Mack are toward the end of their prime right now. They're 28. The dropoff is coming. It's just a fact of life in football.  Pace is much better on the offensive side than Angelo was, I don't deny that. The argument is, after putting his job on the line with Trubisky, by trading what he did for him, does he get another crack at the QB position? I'm not sure I want him picking another QB, and right now I lean toward no. Pace is a good GM. I really like what he's done outside of QB. There are two gripes I have with him: 1) QB Evaluation(Glennon and Trubisky look really bad right now) and 2) Trading draft picks like candy(Mack was ok, I'm talking about other ones) I don't mind #2 as much when you get a solid player or better, but eventually that catches up with you depth wise. 

The jury's still hung on Mitch, but 8 out of 12 jurors think he sucks. I'm willing to give Trubisky until week 10-12. This is a make or break year for him. He has to show as much improvement as he did last year from week to week. Otherwise, he's just bad. I haven't written him off completely yet. Thursday night was incredibly disappointing to the fanbase on so many levels, hence the hot takes. Forgive everyone. 

But it's two days later so stop with the bad takes. I'm up in the air if I'd want Pace to pick another qb but we all should be since IT'S WEEK ONE. Trubisky wasn't good in week 1 last year and ended up having a decent year. Let it play out

[Jack Parkman]

34 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

But it's two days later so stop with the bad takes. I'm up in the air if I'd want Pace to pick another qb but we all should be since IT'S WEEK ONE. Trubisky wasn't good in week 1 last year and ended up having a decent year. Let it play out

He was a hell of a lot better in Lambeau last year week one than he was Thursday night. He came out on fire. 

[Jack Parkman]

40 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

But it's two days later so stop with the bad takes. I'm up in the air if I'd want Pace to pick another qb but we all should be since IT'S WEEK ONE. Trubisky wasn't good in week 1 last year and ended up having a decent year. Let it play out

Of course it's week one. Do you not understand how incredibly disappointing that game was? This was the most anticipated Bears season since 2006, if not 1985. Words cannot describe how disappointed the city is. 

I don't think that Bears fans have been as disappointed since the 28-3 beatdown by the 49ers at Soldier Field in the 1988 NFCCG. 

In my heart of hearts, I thought they had a 20% chance to beat Peyton Manning in SB 41 without Tommie Harris and Mike Brown. I was more disappointed Thursday night than I was when they lost the damn Superbowl 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[soxfan49]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Of course it's week one. Do you not understand how incredibly disappointing that game was? This was the most anticipated Bears season since 2006, if not 1985. Words cannot describe how disappointed the city is. 

I don't think that Bears fans have been as disappointed since the 28-3 beatdown by the 49ers at Soldier Field in the 1988 NFCCG. 

Yeah the Philly game was much more anticipated & thus more disappointing

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Yeah the Philly game was much more anticipated & thus more disappointing

C'mon. You had to know Parkey was going to miss that kick. And Philly was a good team. Weren't they the defending champions? Parkey cost them the game, I wasnt disappointed at all. Chalked it up to shit happens. It sucked they lost but we all knew it could end that way. 

Thursday night was much more disappointing. They looked like a fucking 5 win team. They looked like they belonged vs. Philly. Style points matter. The eye test means more than record in the playoffs. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

C'mon. You had to know Parkey was going to miss that kick. And Philly was a good team. Weren't they the defending champions? Parkey cost them the game, I wasnt disappointed at all. Chalked it up to shit happens. It sucked they lost but we all knew it could end that way. 

Thursday night was much more disappointing. They looked like a fucking 5 win team. They looked like they belonged vs. Philly. Style points matter. The eye test means more than record in the playoffs. 

Their defense looked like a championship caliber team. Their offense was pathetic. Maybe, hopefully, it was just rust. The problem is so many people were looking so forward to that game, and expectations were so high, it just bums everyone out.  We will see next week. Another bad game and the panic sets in.

[soxfan49]

21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

C'mon. You had to know Parkey was going to miss that kick. And Philly was a good team. Weren't they the defending champions? Parkey cost them the game, I wasnt disappointed at all. Chalked it up to shit happens. It sucked they lost but we all knew it could end that way. 

Thursday night was much more disappointing. They looked like a fucking 5 win team. They looked like they belonged vs. Philly. Style points matter. The eye test means more than record in the playoffs. 

That's the point. Their $4m a year kicker missed a game winner at home against the defending champs after a great Trubisky drive & with a shot at the Rams on the line, a team their D manhandled 6 weeks prior. The Philly game was more anticipated. Before that the 2 playoff games in winter of 2011. Don't go crazy now.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Their defense looked like a championship caliber team. Their offense was pathetic. Maybe, hopefully, it was just rust. The problem is so many people were looking so forward to that game, and expectations were so high, it just bums everyone out.  We will see next week. Another bad game and the panic sets in.

This. Nice post. 

[Balta1701]

Mike Tomlin is the 2nd best coach in the NFL. 

[BackDoorBreach]

Antonio Brown to NE, lol.  Wow

[Balta1701]

I hope he rips that team apart somehow.

[SoxAce]

37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I hope he rips that team apart somehow.

With Belichick in charge? Not a chance.

[soxfan49]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Their defense looked like a championship caliber team. Their offense was pathetic. Maybe, hopefully, it was just rust. The problem is so many people were looking so forward to that game, and expectations were so high, it just bums everyone out.  We will see next week. Another bad game and the panic sets in.

Unfortunately Denver's defense is really good and Denver's an extremely difficult place to play, especially in September. Luckily the Broncos' OL is a mess. It might be another 10-3 final.

[Jack Parkman]

This was an absolute genius move by Brown to get more money, and onto a contender. Idk if it was him or Rosenhaus, but whomever orchestrated it is brilliant. All Brown has to do is stay healthy and he's gonna get paaaiiid. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Jack Parkman