bmags Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Cohen averaged 5.2 yards per touch under old school, game passed him by John Fox. He is averaging 4.5 this year under offensive guru Nagy. The offense started sputtering near the end of last season, and has been as awful through the first 6 games as any Bears team since 1975. I mentioned a while ago, a friend of mine who knows football as well as anyone I know told me the league caught up to Nagy, and the guy admittedly has no answers. That is not good. What a difference a year makes. On the bright side personally, I am in the 500s on the season ticket wait list. 2020 is now a distinct possibility. League-wide, the RPOs have certainly been sniffed out, especially with teams (seemingly) rolling back the QB running as an actual option. And when the RPOs are Trubisky's favorite play, it causes issues. Tell you what, I wish more people here could watch Baltimore play offense right now. It seemingly makes a lot more sense for Chicago's personnel. It's power run mixed with deep passes. It's one of the more fun examples of football this year. Longtime CEO coach John Harbaugh finding a player he loves, getting an experienced but seemingly outdated OC in Greg Roman and creating something new in a league that seemed to be homogenizing. But for me the NFL this year has largely been awful, certainly aided by Bears. Not fun at all, can't wait for what should be one of the best NBA seasons in a long while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: You There are a lot of guys picking up NFL paychecks that have performed worse than him at his worst. One even starts for a team some thought were SB bound 7 weeks ago. The guy hasn't played in 3 years and lost his job to Blaine Gabbert before that. Blaine Gabbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 It is starting to become evident that the Mack trade was genius in more ways than one. It got a generational talent on the team and rid Ryan Pace of the opportunity to waste high first round picks on offensive players who can't play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 14 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: So is everyone willing to admit that Trubisky sucks, the defense is overrated and Pace and Nagy should be whacked in January yet? This is clearly a key point in Nagy's tenure. This is about as tough as it can get from a coach. You have a defense that is going to point blame at the offense (partially deservingly) and you have major issues against a team I truly believe and expected the Bears to beat handily. I also say a lot of blame has to lie squarely on the coaching staff (offensive & defensive) and clearly blame is on the QB's shoulders, because you are the QB...period. Right now the QB looks like he isn't playing football...he looks like he's so freaking tight on the field. No fun...no improvisation...just very slow decision making. Looks like they completely turned him into a robot (and I think that is on the QB and coaching staff too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 14 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: No this is a real thought. I've been thinking about this one since the game ended. It's still valid. Not an overreaction. This was Marc Trestman level bullshit today. The offense looks like Trestman in year 2. It looks like utter vanilla crap and that the whole league knows exactly what the Bears are going to do. Yes, blame is on Trubisky too and I won't ignore that. He missed some open guys in the 1st half and just looks like a broken QB right now. He's also the quickest way to turn things around as well (as I still believe he has talent...albeit, dude looks broke and I don't know if they will be able to fix him or not). Hard when you hand the ball off 7 times for like no rushing yards and have 2 lost fumbles on those 7 carries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Soxbadger said: The strange part of all of this, is that Nagy seems to have no plan. Ive seen teams with bad lines before figure out ways to make things happen. But for a coach who is supposed to be an offensive guy, he really just lets the offense stagnate. Bubble screen to Cohen? Screen passes? Fly sweeps? These are all the type of things that are done to take advantage of the defense when they are getting up field to fast. Another problem is that Trubisky is completely adverse to check downs. Many times there are rbs who can get 5 yard passes and he goes downfield. Its a hard team to watch on offense right now, and it starts at the top. All I had to do was watch Latavius Murray run to realize our RB's are part of the problem too. Murray hit the whole aggressive each time and than found cut back lanes. It was night and day vs. our RB's (Cohen & Montgomery). The same was evident with Jones on the Raiders. The speed and authority to which they hit the hole was huge and they were moving the D forward all day. The line has to improve...but the RB's are also part of the problem, imo (or at least there style doesn't fit what the Bears are trying to do). Cohen looks like a shell of his former self. Even when he gets in space I don't see him making guys miss or anything. He just doesn't look as electric and he's a guy who needs to be super electric given how freaking small he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, GoSox05 said: If the Bears are done with Trubisky, you have to fire the GM right? He traded up to the 2nd overall spot and took a bad QB and passed on two superstar qb's. Not to mention some of his other mistakes. The whole RB situation, Anthony Miller looks like a 2nd round bust. Overpaid average players, Burton and Gabriel. The way he has drafted in general has been more bad than good. He trades away a lot of picks to move up. Dumping Mitch now would be a huge mistake. He has played like ass, but he still has talent and the Bears coaching staff needs to do everything to get him right. There best and quickest path forward is with Mitch. They can reevaluate that decision in the off-season and bring in a veteran who can contend for the job (whether that is Matt Ryan or Andy Dalton or Marcus Marriotta). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Tony said: How much of this has to do with Mitch and a really bad O-line, though? Either way, this whole thing is spiraling out of control. They are 3-3 but I honestly can't think of a worse start to the season based on where this team is right now, it's a total disaster. Miller has major issues. It isn't a QB thing. He is all over the place on routes and is always throwing his hands up the air like a diva (its one thing if you are a regular 1000 yard receiver to be a diva, another, when you haven't done that). Miller is a major issue and Mitch being QB isn't why this offense is as futile as it is running the football. Miller was seriously impacted by his off-season injuries and an inability to get as many practice reps as he clearly needed a lot of work on refining his routes and building chemistry with his QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Boogua said: Can you really blame them for not wanting to sign a backup QB with the circus that would follow? If he was good he would be on a team. He might be better than other backups, but he's still a backup. He also hasn't played football in years. I think it would be pretty hard to sign him mid-season and expect anything from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: Cohen averaged 5.2 yards per touch under old school, game passed him by John Fox. He is averaging 4.5 this year under offensive guru Nagy. The offense started sputtering near the end of last season, and has been as awful through the first 6 games as any Bears team since 1975. I mentioned a while ago, a friend of mine who knows football as well as anyone I know told me the league caught up to Nagy, and the guy admittedly has no answers. That is not good. What a difference a year makes. On the bright side personally, I am in the 500s on the season ticket wait list. 2020 is now a distinct possibility. This. I have heard a few NFL analysts who have absolutely blasted the Bears X's and O's this season. These are people who have also said the QB has been an issue but the bigger issue is the scheme and guys not getting open, etc. There are a lot of fingers to go around and I was not happy with how this team came out of a bye week. This was on par with some of Trestman's worse games and was probably one of my most disappointing Bears games as a fan (expectation vs. reality). We were 3 point favorites and got clocked. This is right up there with those couple blowout games against Trestman as well as that Eagles/Bears game last in the season where we got crushed (with a chance to clinch a post-season birth). All that said...this is a tipping point and Nagy certainly could be capable of fixing it. I wonder if he needs to step away from the play calling a bit and/or make a move to give Childress a bit more control. Pagano needs to look closely and figure out what he needs to do different as well. One thing for certain, if I were going to make a trade (and as everyone on this board knows...I'm not big on trading away future picks), I would be targeting a TE who could be counted on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Dumping Mitch now would be a huge mistake. He has played like ass, but he still has talent and the Bears coaching staff needs to do everything to get him right. There best and quickest path forward is with Mitch. They can reevaluate that decision in the off-season and bring in a veteran who can contend for the job (whether that is Matt Ryan or Andy Dalton or Marcus Marriotta). I think they have to keep him because of how much they invested in him and I think going out and getting someone like Dalton(trade and 17 million cap hit) or Marriotta(probably 15 million plus) is way too expensive for the Bears. I just don't see the talent with Trubisky. Arm strength isn't really there, His accuracy on sideline throws is awful, he has a hard time throwing downfield. I would say his best asset is his ability to move in the pocket and scramble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: He also hasn't played football in years. I think it would be pretty hard to sign him mid-season and expect anything from him. That's a good point, but I don't think anyone should buy the reason he hasn't played in 3 years is because he sucks. To deny he was blackballed, isn't being realistic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Also, I don't know why more teams don't run play action fake on most plays when the qb takes the ball under center. Packers annihilated the Raiders with it yesterday and were averaging 2.6 yards per carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: I think they have to keep him because of how much they invested in him and I think going out and getting someone like Dalton(trade and 17 million cap hit) or Marriotta(probably 15 million plus) is way too expensive for the Bears. I just don't see the talent with Trubisky. Arm strength isn't really there, His accuracy on sideline throws is awful, he has a hard time throwing downfield. I would say his best asset is his ability to move in the pocket and scramble. His scrambling ability is almost non existent right now as it was clear yesterday he was very worried about taking a hit to the left shoulder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: His scrambling ability is almost non existent right now as it was clear yesterday he was very worried about taking a hit to the left shoulder I don’t think it’s just that, teams are leaving a spy on him And he hasn’t taken advantage of the fewer men on coverage. Just terrible QB play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: His scrambling ability is almost non existent right now as it was clear yesterday he was very worried about taking a hit to the left shoulder That's understandable. His injury looked painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: That's a good point, but I don't think anyone should buy the reason he hasn't played in 3 years is because he sucks. To deny he was blackballed, isn't being realistic. I think the first year...it was the reason...probably became less so the longer he spent out of football. I also think he had demonstrated he probably wasn't an upper echelon starter and was more likely a middle of the pack QB to a top notch back-up QB. How willing you are to deal with the PR headaches from that sort of player change your perceived view of that player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, bmags said: I don’t think it’s just that, teams are leaving a spy on him And he hasn’t taken advantage of the fewer men on coverage. Just terrible QB play. 2 or 3 times yesterday when he normally would take off. He drove and threw. I am not blaming him, but if he can't scramble and do something with his legs, his badness is magnified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, bmags said: I don’t think it’s just that, teams are leaving a spy on him And he hasn’t taken advantage of the fewer men on coverage. Just terrible QB play. I haven't seen a ton of spying on him. Right now, I think with his injury, it is pretty clear that he doesn't want to get it and is trying to get rid of the football. In fact, there were a few times where it looked like he wanted to make a play but that harness prevented him from making an awkward throw. You could clearly see though he was favoring it on rushes and/or when he was going to get hit. I don't think it really impacted his accuracy though. An optimist would say the momentum they gained during the prevent defense (final 2 TD drives) could be one of those things that the offense carries forward against the Chargers. The flipside of that is, they still looked like an offense that just struggled to make plays. The offensive design just looks meh. You have a QB who isn't a great pure pocket passer, being asked to be a pure pocket passer, being fed a 201/301 view of the offense (vs. a more simplified view..since what McVay did for Goff 1st couple years), and zero rushing attack to help with play action, etc. Like I said, a lot of issues and a chunk falls on the oline, RB, TE, as well as the whole coaching staff and QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: 2 or 3 times yesterday when he normally would take off. He drove and threw. I am not blaming him, but if he can't scramble and do something with his legs, his badness is magnified. There were quite a few plays yesterday, where literally it looks like Mitch had only one option to go with the other wideouts literally being decoys. When the other team defended the screen he was basically left with pure squat. It goes back to how weak I think the scheme is right now (to go with mediocre to bad QB play and a non-existent running game). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: I haven't seen a ton of spying on him. Right now, I think with his injury, it is pretty clear that he doesn't want to get it and is trying to get rid of the football. In fact, there were a few times where it looked like he wanted to make a play but that harness prevented him from making an awkward throw. You could clearly see though he was favoring it on rushes and/or when he was going to get hit. I don't think it really impacted his accuracy though. An optimist would say the momentum they gained during the prevent defense (final 2 TD drives) could be one of those things that the offense carries forward against the Chargers. The flipside of that is, they still looked like an offense that just struggled to make plays. The offensive design just looks meh. You have a QB who isn't a great pure pocket passer, being asked to be a pure pocket passer, being fed a 201/301 view of the offense (vs. a more simplified view..since what McVay did for Goff 1st couple years), and zero rushing attack to help with play action, etc. Like I said, a lot of issues and a chunk falls on the oline, RB, TE, as well as the whole coaching staff and QB. But we had games with him prior to his injury and he also was not running. It was not a new phenomenon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I think the first year...it was the reason...probably became less so the longer he spent out of football. I also think he had demonstrated he probably wasn't an upper echelon starter and was more likely a middle of the pack QB to a top notch back-up QB. How willing you are to deal with the PR headaches from that sort of player change your perceived view of that player. If it makes the team better I am fine. He broke no laws. Whether you agree or disagree with his view is supposed to be irrelevant . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Things are deteriorating very quickly... was Nagy truly a prodigy of Andy Reid? He seems like a really good guy, but the pressure cooker is going to be turned up to the highest level now. How will he handle it? Last season was a fairy tale for him with fans and media but they all turn very, very quickly. He built up some trust, and we all trusted what the coaching staff said that things will be fixed. But, a game or 2 more like this and he will have lost all the trust. It's really a shame because he seemed like a great match for us. But how much of it is on him? I realize the play calling was absolute trash. They can't abandon the run game like that. Mitch Trubisky is not Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady who can single handedly take over a game. If his passing game is going to work, it needs to be built off of a strong run game so that they can incorporate successful play action. It almost seems like they want to build the passing game first but if that's the case then you need to add in some draw plays, right? Are the X's and O's of this team a product of bad coaches or coaches who know that their personnel is trash and trying to put together something that will work? They have almost no tight end and on most plays the O-line is just getting wrecked. Tarik Cohen has been hot garbage all year, Anthony Miller sucks. I mean, it really doesn't seem like the players are giving the coaches much to work with! If this season keeps heading in this direction, management is going to have to make some tough decisions about some of these offensive players. As much as his play has been bad, I don't think I can blame this whole thing on Trubisky. Obviously, he's still young and making mistakes of his own but it's not like he's getting much help from anyone not named Allen Robinson and occasionally Taylor Gabriel. With that in mind, I would really like to see if he can develop when he's actually surrounded with some talent or better coaching or whatever. The same thing applies to Nagy, in my mind. Even if this year ends up a disaster, you have to try to put together a better group of offensive players to see if it's really coaching or not that's the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, bmags said: But we had games with him prior to his injury and he also was not running. It was not a new phenomenon. Like I said, I was watching a player who looks like he has been coached into a robot. Part of that is on Mitch but I think part of this is on how they are coaching him. I really think they have been putting too much on a young QB. The exact definition of what Nagy was doing was putting him in a position where he had to take forever to process vs. play fast. It is the counter of what some of the up and coming offenses have been doing with their young QB's. The whole reason we've seen more young QB's excel is OC's are simplifying playbook and doing things to help them play "fast". From Mcvay to Reid to Harbaugh to O'Brien. Nagy eventually got it right last year (after an awful first few weeks). I'm not sure whether he'll get it right this year. The big challenge with young QB's is when teams start to get more advanced and more and more game film is out there on them and their offenses, how well can you do when you have to start reading faster and doing more complex things. It isn't as if Watson has been stellar all season. He's had some pretty bad games and has been very turnover prone...but he's also had some absolutely electric games. Mitch looks like a broken QB who has zero momentum and/or confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tony said: The HC just said those TD's don't matter at all, it's garbage time and they mean nothing. Especially since they were lucky to score on both those drives as Mitch threw multiple balls that easily could have been picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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