Tax Refunds

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's not really a "better" system imo.

I think it is. It makes more "fair" for the districts that don't have the tax base. This is why there is such a disparity in the quality in education from district to district. It's not good for the state in general.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Wait, I'm confused... The Sir just made some posts saying that he essentially went to school for free and earned two degrees by working so hard...

 

then three posts later he says:

"I graduated college with no savings and a bunch of student loans. I now have a ton in savings and no loan debt. Who did that? ME."

So... did you go to school for practically free, or did you take on a lot of debt to do it?

You are taking this as an attack on your work ethic, when it's not, but you are showing a very ignorant and naive view of the opportunities you were given that most kids are not. 

[The Sir]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Once again... complete nonsense. If I give you $1000 to invest, sure you could turn that into $10,000 or $100,000 - everyone has the same opportunity... but if someone else was given $50,000 they have a much better chance to turn it into $100,000. Both were given an opportunity but one opportunity put them in a much better position.

You teach in those schools - or whatever you do. You have no idea what it's like to be a teenager growing up and developing an environment that tries to suppress their desire to learn.

You were granted privileges those kids never were yet you want to judge them for not overcoming things you've never experienced it. Its nonsense.

Again, GMAFB.

First off, you are assuming a lot about me. It's the dumbest part about the "privilege argument". You can hear that I'm a middle class white male. That doesn't tell you everything you need to know to understand my experiences in life. None of that should be relevant to making a persuasive argument, but who knows? Maybe your argument is just that dumb.

Second, do you really think I have no idea how these kids' home lives work? I hear about it every day. I hear about how so-and-so couldn't do homework because when she got home, mom was walking out the door to job number two, and she had to focus on getting her baby sister fed and bathed and in bed. I'm a smart guy- I've figured out how quite a lot of their lives work. And yeah, some have genuinely shitty home lives.

Third, some are failing at school and will fail at life because they're just not up to task. Harsh? Maybe. I don't care. I had a student last year. She was poor, but most of mine are. Still, mom put a roof over her head and food on the table, and from the sounds of it, was generally around when the student was at home. I called multiple times to find out how I could better get the kid to have the right attitude in class and to be more diligent, and mom was simply exasperated. Everything that happened in my classroom also happened at home. She mouthed off to me, she mouthed off to mom, she refused to do homework, she refused to do chores, etc. Mom had no idea how to fix it. Do you want to blame someone else when she fails to make anything of herself in life? I don't. She was given opportunities to learn, and she refused them (her other teachers reported the same). Classmates of hers, from similar situations, came to school, worked their butts off, and will see their adult lives be far better off than their childhoods. She probably won't. Who's fault is that? At what point would you finally say it's hers?

An environment that tries to suppress their desire to learn? WTF is that? Do you want to describe what that looks like? I'd say the kid from the previous paragraph might have faced that, but it was her own creation. People around her learned just fine.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Again, GMAFB.

First off, you are assuming a lot about me. It's the dumbest part about the "privilege argument". You can hear that I'm a middle class white male. That doesn't tell you everything you need to know to understand my experiences in life. None of that should be relevant to making a persuasive argument, but who knows? Maybe your argument is just that dumb.

Second, do you really think I have no idea how these kids' home lives work? I hear about it every day. I hear about how so-and-so couldn't do homework because when she got home, mom was walking out the door to job number two, and she had to focus on getting her baby sister fed and bathed and in bed. I'm a smart guy- I've figured out how quite a lot of their lives work. And yeah, some have genuinely shitty home lives.

Third, some are failing at school and will fail at life because they're just not up to task. Harsh? Maybe. I don't care. I had a student last year. She was poor, but most of mine are. Still, mom put a roof over her head and food on the table, and from the sounds of it, was generally around when the student was at home. I called multiple times to find out how I could better get the kid to have the right attitude in class and to be more diligent, and mom was simply exasperated. Everything that happened in my classroom also happened at home. She mouthed off to me, she mouthed off to mom, she refused to do homework, she refused to do chores, etc. Mom had no idea how to fix it. Do you want to blame someone else when she fails to make anything of herself in life? I don't. She was given opportunities to learn, and she refused them (her other teachers reported the same). Classmates of hers, from similar situations, came to school, worked their butts off, and will see their adult lives be far better off than their childhoods. She probably won't. Who's fault is that? At what point would you finally say it's hers?

An environment that tries to suppress their desire to learn? WTF is that? Do you want to describe what that looks like? I'd say the kid from the previous paragraph might have faced that, but it was her own creation. People around her learned just fine.

Yes, an environment in which the majority of kids aren't there focusing on learning because they have bigger concerns in their lives.

If you think the CPS environment is that of one which is pro-learning, you are in denial. 

[The Sir]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Wait, I'm confused... The Sir just made some posts saying that he essentially went to school for free and earned two degrees by working so hard...

 

then three posts later he says:

"I graduated college with no savings and a bunch of student loans. I now have a ton in savings and no loan debt. Who did that? ME."

So... did you go to school for practically free, or did you take on a lot of debt to do it?

You are taking this as an attack on your work ethic, when it's not, but you are showing a very ignorant and naive view of the opportunities you were given that most kids are not. 

Poor choice of words on my part. I did have loans. I joined the Army and had my undergrad paid off. I overstayed my contract and my grad school was paid for. If I didn't join, I would have owed $80,000 or whatever. Depends what mood I'm in whether I say it was basically free or that I worked my ass off.

[The Sir]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, an environment in which the majority of kids aren't there focusing on learning because they have bigger concerns in their lives.

If you think the CPS environment is that of one which is pro-learning, you are in denial. 

CPS to me is Child Protective Services. I have nothing to do (and never have, in any capacity) with Chicago Public Schools. Sorry it sucks.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Poor choice of words on my part. I did have loans. I joined the Army and had my undergrad paid off. I overstayed my contract and my grad school was paid for. If I didn't join, I would have owed $80,000 or whatever. Depends what mood I'm in whether I say it was basically free or that I worked my ass off.

If your contention is that everyone can join the military,  you are not correct. 

[bmags]

CPS has many of the best schools of the state. It's a massive school system with varying quality.

[The Sir]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

CPS has many of the best schools of the state. It's a massive school system with varying quality.

Fair enough. I have no experience with it and know almost nothing about it. Forgive the sarcastic language.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

CPS has many of the best schools of the state. It's a massive school system with varying quality.

Also very true, which makes it that much worse in my opinion. The entire system is so top heavy and no one cares about the majority of the bottom. 

[The Sir]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If your contention is that everyone can join the military,  you are not correct. 

People with various disabilities can't. Sure.

On a policy level, in the interest of making university more affordable, this is obviously not the answer. We can't force everyone to join the military. And as a service member myself, having a bunch of non-volunteers is the last thing I want. I'm not sure what the answer is, policy wise, but I'd tend to suggest less government involvement as a means of driving the price down. Whatever.

Now, if you are an able-bodied, relatively young person, and you graduated college with an expensive degree which thus far has not been successful in finding you a job, or you just graduated from one of the crummy CPS schools and you don't have either the finances or grades to attend college right here right now...

...I'VE GOT GOOD NEWS!

And I mean that, sincerely. If you meet the requirements, and have any amount of physical and mental resiliency, because of the benefits it offers, the military is a great path to a better life. People shouldn't be forced into it, but if you want a leg up, this is a hell of a place to start.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

The military... I should have known that was the nonsensical place you were headed with this discussion.

No biggie. Have a good one. I'm just glad my tax dollars got to pay for The Sir's education while he passes judgement on others who are less fortunate. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[bmags]

Just something to keep in mind about universities: it had a massive influx of students from 00-14, around the same time starting in 2000 state funding toward universities started to decline for many state institutions.

In addition, school selection doesn't behave as a true market. Many schools found that increasing tuition gave the appearance of selectivity, making it seem like a better school, and saw increase in applications. Much like healthcare, it seems people have a difficult time choosing a cheaper option that has the appearance of lower quality when making a decision they feel will affect the future quality of their life substantially. Pairing that with increasing pool of students made it easy to raise tuition.

Moving forward there is going to continue to be a declining student base from its peak with millenials, the 2008 crisis plunged child birth rates and that group turns 18 in 2026. Peak enrollment is already behind us.

It's possible the college debt crisis may be isolated to the millennial generation, and some relief would not be as burdensome and expensive going forward. And it may also be necessary to make college even more attractive in the future to increase participation in future generations.

[raBBit]

2 hours ago, illinilaw08 said:

Rabbit, I'm at 4.5% on all my grad school loans.  I looked into refinancing again, but - like you mention - it wasn't going to save me enough to make it worth the hassle.  

This is what I figured. Thanks for confirming.

2 hours ago, kevo880 said:

Rabbit, curious the best way to go about refinancing. I think it would help me knock out my student loans a lot faster.

I have about $25k through Navient between 6-7.2%, about $11k through Mohela at about 6.8%, and another $2600 at about 5.2% through Discover.

If I bank through Chase do you recommend just going in there to talk to them about consolidating or how do you find the best way to do it?

The goods news is you certainly have plenty to gain assuming your credit isn't a mess. I would not recommend going through chase. If you're interested in what I did I can take a look at my folder on my personal computer and send you some notes when I get home. PM me if you're interested. In the mean time, if you have one dollar over the your standard monthly autopay make sure it is going to the the highest interest rate in the Navient account. 

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Because student loans are the government investing in their own people. It's an investment loan granted by the government under the premise that an educated country is a more prosperous one and that college leads to higher earnings to pay you back.

You've repeatedly replied to another poster saying "complete nonsense" and then post the bolded. The government is making money off of the young people in this country. It is not an investment, it is a cash grab that has lead to tuition prices skyrocketing as a result of them skewing the supply and demand for college. 

If you're a home owner, do you think the bank that processed your mortgage invested in you?

[The Sir]

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The military... I should have known that was the nonsensical place you were headed with this discussion.

No biggie. Have a good one. I'm just glad my tax dollars got to pay for The Sir's education while he passes judgement on others who are less fortunate. 

Less fortunate? Ha. I’ll remember that when I get sent to Syria.

But hey, I’m sure you’re a great steward of tax dollars. I’m sure you’re opposed to every ridiculous boondoggle wherein we give tax dollars to people who did nothing to earn it, and not just one of the few situations where the recipients actually did.

Have a nice life, Ray.

[pettie4sox]

This is why I said agree to disagree because I didn't know his life.  I knew that we could truly never understand where each came from and left it at that.

I'm going to open up a new discussion about what is the best way to use to your tax refund?

Thoughts?

[Jack Parkman]

11 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Less fortunate? Ha. I’ll remember that when I get sent to Syria.

But hey, I’m sure you’re a great steward of tax dollars. I’m sure you’re opposed to every ridiculous boondoggle wherein we give tax dollars to people who did nothing to earn it, and not just one of the few situations where the recipients actually did.

Have a nice life, Ray.

It seems you haven't learned anything from our conversation over PM, where I told you that some people(myself included) don't think of charity as charity, but instead as a "pity gift" given to someone that is looked down upon by the remainder of society. If you don't want your tax money going to help certain people, then you don't value them as human beings. Whether that means financial support, job training, investment in education, etc. It says more about our society where we put our tax money than where we give to charity. IMO, if you don't want your tax dollars helping poor people, then you dehumanize them. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 minutes ago, raBBit said:

This is what I figured. Thanks for confirming.

The goods news is you certainly have plenty to gain assuming your credit isn't a mess. I would not recommend going through chase. If you're interested in what I did I can take a look at my folder on my personal computer and send you some notes when I get home. PM me if you're interested. In the mean time, if you have one dollar over the your standard monthly autopay make sure it is going to the the highest interest rate in the Navient account. 

You've repeatedly replied to another poster saying "complete nonsense" and then post the bolded. The government is making money off of the young people in this country. It is not an investment, it is a cash grab that has lead to tuition prices skyrocketing as a result of them skewing the supply and demand for college. 

If you're a home owner, do you think the bank that processed your mortgage invested in you?

Yes, it is a cash grab that also increases the education level of the country. 

In no way was I patting the government on the back for this; it's merely a reason they will use to rationalize the loan offerings to people without incomes. It is viewed as an investment. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Less fortunate? Ha. I’ll remember that when I get sent to Syria.

But hey, I’m sure you’re a great steward of tax dollars. I’m sure you’re opposed to every ridiculous boondoggle wherein we give tax dollars to people who did nothing to earn it, and not just one of the few situations where the recipients actually did.

Have a nice life, Ray.

I have no issues with tax dollars; they are a necessary evil. I just want them to be appropriated properly. 

I just find it ironic that you judge people of less fortune when you, yourself, depended on others to pay for your education. Others aren't so lucky for that to be an option. You think it was hard work that got you where you are, but would you be there if you had to pay yourself? Why didn't you work hard - outside the military - to pay your own tuition? Why did you chose a route in which tax payers pay if it's all about how hard one works?

I grew up in River Forest - struggling is not something I have personally endured... far from it, but I have met and worked with people of all walks of life who did not have the privileges I was given growing up - a great school system, parents that could support me to the point where that never was a concern for me, and supportive parents who pushed and motivated me because they could afford Montessori schools, great child care and etc. What you fail to understand is that those are huge benefits, and judging those who don't receive them is naive. When you are worried about whether or not your mom will eat tonight or have enough food for you... worried about whether you can walk to the closest place with wifi because it's night time and dangerous... maybe then you'll understand that obstacles can deter a childs path to success much easier than adults - who themselves are already easily taken off task. Children that have to worry about every thing in their lives - unable to simply focus on school and friends etc - are going to have a harder time achieving the goals that someone without those speed bumps has. It's just a fact of life. 

The whole... work hard and succeed thing is obviously nonsensical. It's why parental income is correlated so heavily to childrens success. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

18 minutes ago, raBBit said:

This is what I figured. Thanks for confirming.

The goods news is you certainly have plenty to gain assuming your credit isn't a mess. I would not recommend going through chase. If you're interested in what I did I can take a look at my folder on my personal computer and send you some notes when I get home. PM me if you're interested. In the mean time, if you have one dollar over the your standard monthly autopay make sure it is going to the the highest interest rate in the Navient account. 

You've repeatedly replied to another poster saying "complete nonsense" and then post the bolded. The government is making money off of the young people in this country. It is not an investment, it is a cash grab that has lead to tuition prices skyrocketing as a result of them skewing the supply and demand for college. 

If you're a home owner, do you think the bank that processed your mortgage invested in you?

By the way, comparing loans you can default on to a loan you cannot does not really work.

The bank isn't investing in you for a mortgage. The government is absolutely investing in you with a college loan because they are giving you a loan with no real income or collateral being held.

[illinilaw08]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, it is a cash grab that also increases the education level of the country. 

In no way was I patting the government on the back for this; it's merely a reason they will use to rationalize the loan offerings to people without incomes. It is viewed as an investment. 

It's a relatively safe vehicle for the feds since the bankruptcy code makes it virtually impossible for people to get rid of their student loan debt...

Student loan debt is crippling for a lot of people.  My wife and I are comfortable, but between the two of us, we're paying approximately $1500/m on account of student loan debt (some of that is overpayment, but still).  I legitimately don't know how people can have both student loan debt and children.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said:

It's a relatively safe vehicle for the feds since the bankruptcy code makes it virtually impossible for people to get rid of their student loan debt...

Student loan debt is crippling for a lot of people.  My wife and I are comfortable, but between the two of us, we're paying approximately $1500/m on account of student loan debt (some of that is overpayment, but still).  I legitimately don't know how people can have both student loan debt and children.

Yes, I understand that but people need to understand that it's still an investment since there is no collateral or income; unless you consider a lifetime of wage garnishment as the collateral. 

[pettie4sox]

4 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said:

It's a relatively safe vehicle for the feds since the bankruptcy code makes it virtually impossible for people to get rid of their student loan debt...

Student loan debt is crippling for a lot of people.  My wife and I are comfortable, but between the two of us, we're paying approximately $1500/m on account of student loan debt (some of that is overpayment, but still).  I legitimately don't know how people can have both student loan debt and children.

1500/month... that is criminal.  I don't understand why education is so guarded in this country... we have to do better or it will be only the kids that have being educated and that's not good.

[KiwiSox]

There is an unlimited quantity of information and knowledge available for free, or nearly for free, on the internet. Three months of diligently using Codeacademy and anyone, literally anyone, can waltz into a middle class income. There was a time when schools and institutions were responsible for education but that time has mostly passed. Of course if someone wants to be a doctor or pilot they should go through the formal training, but if the goal is just to "make it" there are paths for everyone to be successful no matter their station.

Really, if you're poor in America its your own damn fault. People hate hearing that but its true. The wages there are so ridiculously high and costs so ridiculously low, I dont think Americans realize how difficult it is in other countries. I love life here and am never turning back but if I ever were I know that life in America, at least from a money perspective, is like the easy-mode setting on a video game.

[KiwiSox]

3 minutes ago, pettie4sox said:

1500/month... that is criminal.  I don't understand why education is so guarded in this country... we have to do better or it will be only the kids that have being educated and that's not good.

Open a new tab in the same browser window you are viewing this forum. 

You now have access to an indexed collection of mankind's cumulative knowledge. It took you about eight seconds. And your right to peruse it is absolute, guarded by the first amendment to the founding document of your country. If you aren't educated in America these days that is entirely on you.