Fulmer: An awesome deep dive on his driveline winter

[bmags]

https://sports.yahoo.com/carson-fulmer-turned-one-baseballs-top-data-driven-companies-reclaim-career-140030895.html

Quote

“There have been a lot of changes for me mechanically over the past couple years. I think that’s kind of had some bad results,” Fulmer said.

Fulmer’s delivery was the topic of much discussion in the lead up to the 2015 draft. A number of outlets said it required effort. ESPN’s Keith Law believed Fulmer’s delivery would eventually lead to Fulmer winding up the bullpen, which isn’t usually the desired outcome of a pitcher drafted in the top 10.

Fulmer, however, believes his unorthodox mechanics were part of what made him effective.

 

[fathom]

Great article....not surprised to hear he got too cutter-happy

[southsider2k5]

Chalk one up for the "best shape of his life" counter.

[bmags]

36 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Chalk one up for the "best shape of his life" counter.

I think with the schools and academies now available to prospects in the offseason, if they see substantial improvement it's a lot more interesting than just body. If it was just fulmer lost 15 lbs this wouldn't be a big deal.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I think with the schools and academies now available to prospects in the offseason, if they see substantial improvement it's a lot more interesting than just body. If it was just fulmer lost 15 lbs this wouldn't be a big deal.

HOpefully it really does work out.  It would be awesome to get back the college level Fulmer, as that would give us an SP that no one expected.

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/carson-fulmer-turned-one-baseballs-top-data-driven-companies-reclaim-career-140030895.html

 

Sounds like they are making him into a bullpen pitcher. Go back to a h9gh effort delivery and pitch to maximum effort. 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Sounds like they are making him into a bullpen pitcher. Go back to a h9gh effort delivery and pitch to maximum effort. 

If he became a right handed Andrew Miller, his being picked 8th overall would be justified. But, of course, that is a bit much to ask, even though Miller was horrid for a while himself.

If somehow he becomes useful. Driveline is going to be the answer for all failing pitchers.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

If he became a right handed Andrew Miller, his being picked 8th overall would be justified. But, of course, that is a bit much to ask, even though Miller was horrid for a while himself.

If somehow he becomes useful. Driveline is going to be the answer for all failing pitchers.

One of the standard Hawk rants is about how if he were running an organization, he'd have all failing MiLB pitchers try a knuckleball when they were about to be out of baseball.  His point was always that if what you are doing now isn't working, why wouldn't you try something different to further your career?  The idea that all players are going to work into a one size fits all basis is false.  A perfect example is Walt Hriniak.  While Frank Thomas worked like a dream with him, others couldn't do it.

[bmags]

42 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

One of the standard Hawk rants is about how if he were running an organization, he'd have all failing MiLB pitchers try a knuckleball when they were about to be out of baseball.  His point was always that if what you are doing now isn't working, why wouldn't you try something different to further your career?  The idea that all players are going to work into a one size fits all basis is false.  A perfect example is Walt Hriniak.  While Frank Thomas worked like a dream with him, others couldn't do it.

It's kind of amazing Hriniak and thomas isn't it? You had this hulk of a man that hit the crap out of the ball and he had him try to slap line drives down the middle. I wonder what would have happened to thomas in today's environment with more emphasis on pulling the ball, and if it may have played too much to his strengths and made him more one dimensional (ala 02-05 thomas)

[bmags]

54 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Sounds like they are making him into a bullpen pitcher. Go back to a h9gh effort delivery and pitch to maximum effort. 

I will take what we can get from him now.

[ptatc]

15 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's kind of amazing Hriniak and thomas isn't it? You had this hulk of a man that hit the crap out of the ball and he had him try to slap line drives down the middle. I wonder what would have happened to thomas in today's environment with more emphasis on pulling the ball, and if it may have played too much to his strengths and made him more one dimensional (ala 02-05 thomas)

Thomas of 02-05 was one dimensional because he couldn't put any weight on his front foot. 

Thomas was one of the first "stats" guys. He wouldn't have given up his average just to hit more HR. He wanted to be an all around hitter. He was very about which balls he would hit for HR, which ones to drive the other way and which ones to let go by because they weren't in his zone.

It would be interesting to see how many HR he hit if he sold out everything for power as today's hitters do.

[SoxAce]

"Fulmer, however, believes his unorthodox mechanics were part of what made him effective."

 

FINALLY. Still thought it was weird they made him change it a while back abd was adamant about it. 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Thomas of 02-05 was one dimensional because he couldn't put any weight on his front foot. 

Thomas was one of the first "stats" guys. He wouldn't have given up his average just to hit more HR. He wanted to be an all around hitter. He was very about which balls he would hit for HR, which ones to drive the other way and which ones to let go by because they weren't in his zone.

It would be interesting to see how many HR he hit if he sold out everything for power as today's hitters do.

Ah, I thought he switched because he was trying to hit 500 hr

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

"Fulmer, however, believes his unorthodox mechanics were part of what made him effective."

 

FINALLY. Still thought it was weird they made him change it a while back abd was adamant about it. 

It probably is the only way that he will last as a starter. However, since it didn't work let him go back to his old form, become effective and go to the pen if needed.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Ah, I thought he switched because he was trying to hit 500 hr

No, he had multiple fractures in the primary bone in the arch called the navicular. The bone is only about 1 inch cubed in size and they put an obscene number of screws in it to try to get it to heal, something like 14. It didn't heal well and he couldn't even wal without pain.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 hours ago, SoxAce said:

"Fulmer, however, believes his unorthodox mechanics were part of what made him effective."

 

FINALLY. Still thought it was weird they made him change it a while back abd was adamant about it. 

One of the few places this team has excelled in the last two decades have been pitcher development and health. The White Sox did not fuck with Sale's delivery because they didn't believe it was violent and dangerous. 

The White Sox do believe that of Fulmer's, and that's alarming because this teams ability to maintain health and take risks on guys other teams wouldn't has been second to none and they felt Fulmer was in trouble throwing the way he did prior. 

[BamaDoc]

At this point, I think most people think anything we get from him is a bonus.  Hopefully, he rebounds.  It would be nice to have some pleasant developments.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One of the few places this team has excelled in the last two decades have been pitcher development and health. The White Sox did not fuck with Sale's delivery because they didn't believe it was violent and dangerous. 

The White Sox do believe that of Fulmer's, and that's alarming because this teams ability to maintain health and take risks on guys other teams wouldn't has been second to none and they felt Fulmer was in trouble throwing the way he did prior. 

The thing I find interesting is that they even drafted him knowing/observing this. I would think that if you fully believe a guy to have shitty mechanics, how can you believe changing a guys mechanics won’t cause him to lose or affect his stuff? I realize most of the good players out of that draft went before him, but was he really the BPA available at that time?

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

The thing I find interesting is that they even drafted him knowing/observing this. I would think that if you fully believe a guy to have shitty mechanics, how can you believe changing a guys mechanics won’t cause him to lose or affect his stuff? I realize most of the good players out of that draft went before him, but was he really the BPA available at that time?

Isn't it similar to drafting Collins knowing they'd have to help him fix the hitch?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn't it similar to drafting Collins knowing they'd have to help him fix the hitch?

True, you could argue this for sure. He obviously was not a perfect selection, but there are players that have had some success with similar issues at the MLB level. I did think Collins was BPA at that time (I can’t recall the prior draft with Fulmer). Plus a hitch in a swing doesn’t increase a player’s risk for injury like shit mechanics does. Seems way more risky to draft a flawed pitcher than hitter.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

27 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

The thing I find interesting is that they even drafted him knowing/observing this. I would think that if you fully believe a guy to have shitty mechanics, how can you believe changing a guys mechanics won’t cause him to lose or affect his stuff? I realize most of the good players out of that draft went before him, but was he really the BPA available at that time?

Arrogance maybe. They had fixed and worked with so many young arms and reclamation projects they probably thought they could get the most out of him.

[bmags]

17 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

True, you could argue this for sure. He obviously was not a perfect selection, but there are players that have had some success with similar issues at the MLB level. I did think Collins was BPA at that time (I can’t recall the prior draft with Fulmer). Plus a hitch in a swing doesn’t increase a player’s risk for injury like shit mechanics does. Seems way more risky to draft a flawed pitcher than hitter.

Hostetler has said Zack was #1 on their boards. It was not a particularly productive draft yet, but still questionable.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

33 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

True, you could argue this for sure. He obviously was not a perfect selection, but there are players that have had some success with similar issues at the MLB level. I did think Collins was BPA at that time (I can’t recall the prior draft with Fulmer). Plus a hitch in a swing doesn’t increase a player’s risk for injury like shit mechanics does. Seems way more risky to draft a flawed pitcher than hitter.

Walker Buehler was on Fulmer's damn team.  I don't know how they can be so short sighted to think Fulmer would end up being the better option. 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Walker Buehler was on Fulmer's damn team.  I don't know how they can be so short sighted to think Fulmer would end up being the better option. 

Plain and simple, the Sox won't take someone with medical red flags that early in the draft.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Plain and simple, the Sox won't take someone with medical red flags that early in the draft.

Yep. Short sighted.