Lip Man 1 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 All I know is the guy seems to win a lot of games, flaws and all. Would love for him to be GM of the Sox. Also respected his comments last week where he took ownership of the slow start by the Cubs saying it's not the owners or the Luxury Tax but himself that was at fault. He didn't make excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes, I'm indirectly defending Hahn by calling all his moves abysmal. My goodness. So tell me what is your gripe about some of us impressed the job Theo has done for 2 different franchises? That hes only great and not a "god"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: As I said, Theo has not been nearly as good in the draft. Kris Bryant fell into his lap... after Bryant, what Cub has he drafted that is good? Almora seems like a decent pick. Happ seems like he might be OK. Schwarber isn't Babe Ruth but he contributes. Everyone here seems to like Dylan Cease. Theo drafted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: Imagine trying to put down Theo Epstein to make Hahn seem not as horrid. Couldn't be me Theo isn't some genius. He's average. Dude has taken great teams and completely destroyed them. He self destructs when he is given free reign to spend. He's great at building a team from scratch but he's horrible at maximizing a championship window once it opens. Theo is a point A to B GM. He'd probably be a better GM with a small to mid market team than a large market team. Edited April 12, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Theo isn't some genius. He's average. Dude has taken great teams and completely destroyed them. He self destructs when he is given free reign to spend. He's great at building a team from scratch but he's horrible at maximizing a championship window once it opens. Theo is a point A to B GM. He'd probably be a better GM with a small to mid market team than a large market team. He's a great GM dude, you saying he's average is just a hot take. If you can build a team from scratch you're a great GM, that's their #1 job. Theo has proven to be able to do this multiple times. You would think seeing first hand an FO struggle to field a .500 team would help highlight that. Edited April 12, 2019 by TheTruth05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: He a great GM dude, you saying he's average is just a hot take. If you can build a team from scratch you're a great GM, that's their #1 job. Theo has proven to be able to do this multiple times. You would think seeing first hand an FO struggle to field a .500 team would help highlight that. GM's should be evaluated based on results and resources available. Brian Cashman shouldnt be judged the same as someone like Shapiro. If you give me 1 million dollars to invest I'm likely to make more money investing than if you give me $500,000. Resources available matter a lot. Edit: theo is certainly better than average. I'd put him in the top 8 or so. That said you cant poing to Boston years today. The main edge he had in Boston has been removed under the current cba. Edited April 12, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, TheTruth05 said: He a great GM dude, you saying he's average is just a hot take. If you can build a team from scratch you're a great GM, that's their #1 job. Theo has proven to be able to do this multiple times. You would think seeing first hand an FO struggle to field a .500 team would help highlight that. I agree. He won twice in Boston. Won with the Cubs. Now he has a team that won 95 games in 2018 and everyone thinks they were horrible. I wonder who really is better than him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 By the way, thanks for putting this together bmags. I love stuff like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: GM's should be evaluated based on results and resources available. Brian Cashman shouldnt be judged the same as someone like Shapiro. If you give me 1 million dollars to invest I'm likely to make more money investing than if you give me $500,000. Resources available matter a lot. Edit: theo is certainly better than average. I'd put him in the top 8 or so. That said you cant poing to Boston years today. The main edge he had in Boston has been removed under the current cba. Of course, that's why both of those guys have been very successful relative to their financial restraints. Has Hahn been successful with the constraints JR has given him? Just because JR is a cheap ass doesn't excuse Hahn from his terrible talent evaluation. I'm done talking Theo, if he was the Sox GM i'm sure he'd have a statue in the GSpots outfield concourse already. Edited April 12, 2019 by TheTruth05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 32 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Theo isn't some genius. He's average. Dude has taken great teams and completely destroyed them. He self destructs when he is given free reign to spend. He's great at building a team from scratch but he's horrible at maximizing a championship window once it opens. Theo is a point A to B GM. He'd probably be a better GM with a small to mid market team than a large market team. This is crazy, who would you actually consider good then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: This is crazy, who would you actually consider good then? Friedman and Mozeliak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Friedman and Mozeliak That’s it? Everyone else is average or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: That’s it? Everyone else is average or bad? I'd say Cashman as well but he comes with an asterisk because it is the Yankees Those 3 guys are the only ones with enough of a good track record to definitively make an assessment. Other longtime GMs like Hahn, Daniels, etc are below average to bad. Wait and see on Preller, and the Rays GM and you can't say shit about the Braves because the guy that built that team got permawhacked from baseball. Edited April 12, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: Of course, that's why both of those guys have been very successful relative to their financial restraints. Has Hahn been successful with the constraints JR has given him? Just because JR is a cheap ass doesn't excuse Hahn from his terrible talent evaluation. I'm done talking Theo, if he was the Sox GM i'm sure he'd have a statue in the GSpots outfield concourse already. Fair enough; my entire point is that the a lot of Theo's success in Boston was achieved by exploiting the draft in a way that he cannot do anymore. His edge was removed. Since then, he has not been nearly as dominant in drafts as he was back then. In fact, with the Cubs the only + player he drafted so far is Bryant. Almora was drafted a year before Tim Anderson, with the 6th overall pick, and he's had back to back 1.1 WAR years. Schwarber, as I said, is the most overrated baseball player on the planet; although I think that is beginning to wear off. Obviously to exploit the draft you need to be good enough to evaluate talent in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: I'd say Cashman as well but he comes with an asterisk because it is the Yankees So only three good GMs in all of baseball and even one of them has an asterisk? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: So only three good GMs in all of baseball and even one of them has an asterisk? Not enough of a track record with most of the guys. There's a reason Cashman, Mozeliak and Friedman have been in their jobs for 15-20 years. The reason you can assess these 3 guys the best is that they've been in charge for at least two cycles of a window. They've built a contender, made a WS, tore it down when the window closed and built another contender. I've seen enough of Theo to know he's not on their level. Edited April 12, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Not enough of a track record with most of the guys. There's a reason Cashman, Mozeliak and Friedman have been in their jobs for 15-20 years. The reason you can assess these 3 guys the best is that they've been in charge for at least two cycles of a window. They've built a contender, made a WS, tore it down when the window closed and built another contender. I've seen enough of Theo to know he's not on their level. Theo won 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Theo won 3 times. Dombrowski has won twice and he's a dunce. He's got 4 appearances! Edited April 12, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Dombrowski has won twice and he's a dunce. The dunce who made the moves to build a team that won 113 games and a WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Theo won 3 times. He also got fired whereas the other guys didn't. Theo might have the most championships, but baseball is weird and I look at playoff appearances, keeping payroll flexibility, as well as drafting and development. The three guys above Theo are better at maximizing a window than Theo is. I'm a believer to evaluate baseball GMs playoff appearances>>> championships because winning championships is more about dumb luck than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Dombrowski has won twice and he's a dunce. He's got 4 appearances! He's won once. 2018 was his first. Dombrowski is too reckless for my taste. Edited April 12, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: The dunce who made the moves to build a team that won 113 games and a WS. Yes, Dave Dombrowski built the team. Sigh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: He's won once. 2018 was his first. He won a title with the Marlins in 97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: He also got fired whereas the other guys didn't. Theo might have the most championships, but baseball is weird and I look at playoff appearances, keeping payroll flexibility, as well as drafting and development. The three guys above Theo are better at maximizing a window than Theo is. I'm a believer to evaluate baseball GMs playoff appearances>>> championships because winning championships is more about dumb luck than anything else. He didn't get fired. He quit the Red Sox twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: He won a title with the Marlins in 97. Oh shit that was him??? I didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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