Hahn on 670 Tonight

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Keith Law's going to to rank us 20th next year...because Kopech and Cease will have graduated and our first round draft pick this summer will already be up at the big league level in August and September.

Yes, Keith Law... the same guy who stuck to Chris Sale not being a starter in the big leagues three years into his career following a 2nd in the Cy Young voting. 

Now people cite the guy who is the lowest of the countless sources on the Sox system and parrot him as the expert of experts. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We only need to trade for the next Christian Yelich (highway robbery, there), sign the next LoCain at a fair price, add in Moustakas (oops, that ship sailed)...maybe Marwin Gonzalez instead...and possess a starting rotation that runs 7-8 deep with one of the best, if not THE best, bullpen in MLB.  Since we're going with Astros model, might as well throw Keuchel in there as well, or Gio, at least. 

(It would also help to have a blocked 1B from another organization fall directly into their laps.)

Easy, peezy.

Dallas Keuchel was almost out of baseball - he was Giolito bad his first year in the league. 

This forum is becoming cancerous. It's one thing to be disappointed; it's another to be overly doom and gloom about everything.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So if the White Sox sign Manny, they're on their way and everyone is rosey... but without Manny, the rebuild is a failure and they'll never succeed. So someone remind me again... why would they sign Manny if the rebuild was failing and they were in a bad place? No one has been able to answer that. Manny wasn't fixing a disaster in the making as everyone is claiming. 

It has nothing to do with the fact they did or didn't sign him. It has more to do with HOW they fucked it up. They have learned absolutely nothing from 2014-16. I have zero faith in their scouting acumen anymore. None. They've proven themselves to be incompetent repeatedly so why the fuck should I believe in  their talent evaluation? 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[YonderLaroche]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Colome was not a signing, they traded away Narvaez for him. 

the Sox have had a historically bad minor league development , maybe they should spend some money on a new staff.  Between altering mechanics for the worse , injuries , all out flops , it's pathetic 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, Keith Law... the same guy who stuck to Chris Sale not being a starter in the big leagues three years into his career following a 2nd in the Cy Young voting. 

Of course, he's also the only All-Star/MVP caliber player that we developed in a generation...and we couldn't even build a core around him, so in the end, it was all pointless. 

I'm sure if he gets into the HoF he won't go in with a White Sox hat on, that much is guaranteed.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Ironically, Alonso has an option that vests after 550 PAs and they will show his brother in law ways how a team can manipulate that to get rid of the player.

It really would be smart/nice to trade Alonso to SD right now for some minor prospect and trade John Jay to SD if they'd even take him for future considerations. I mean seriously. Having them here will be good for nobody. Negative vibes each and every time they step to the plate. Is there any way we could deal them or am I dreaming?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They haven't developed an arm since McCarthy and a position player since Crede. Sale doesn't count because he was up 3-4 weeks after he got drafted. He was MLB ready out of the NCAA. 

Cub fans shouldn't be worried one bit about Eloy and Cease. The Sox will find some way to ruin them. 

LOL so now the guys that did pan out - IE turning Quintana from a literal released minor league journeyman in the making into a top 20 SP in baseball, and Sale - don't count for development... John Danks was looking pretty good pre-injury. Turned Gavin Floyd into the arm everyone thought wasn't possible. Got the most out of a 98th round pick in Mark Buehrle. They've developed more starters than 90% of baseball teams. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It has nothing to do with the fact they did or didn't sign him. It has more to do with HOW they fucked it up. They have learned absolutely nothing from 2014-16. I have zero faith in their scouting acumen anymore. None. They've proven themselves to be incompetent repeatedly so why the fuck should I believe in  their talent evaluation? 

Once again, if they are a disaster and a dumpster fire they never should have signed Manny. Period. You simply cannot argue both ways.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Dallas Keuchel was almost out of baseball - he was Giolito bad his first year in the league. 

This forum is becoming cancerous. It's one thing to be disappointed; it's another to be overly doom and gloom about everything.

After his junior year at Arkansas, the Houston Astros selected Keuchel in the seventh round of the 2009 Major League Baseball (MLB) draft.^[3] He signed with the Astros and began his professional career with the Tri-City ValleyCats of the Class A-Short Season New York–Penn League, where he had a 2.70 ERA. He began the 2010 season with the Lancaster JetHawks of the Class A-Advanced California League. After posting a 3.36 ERA, the Astros promoted him to the Corpus Christi Hooks of the Class AA Texas League in July, where he had a 4.70 ERA for the remainder of the season. He began the 2011 season with Corpus Christi, and after pitching to a 3.17 ERA, received a promotion to the Oklahoma City RedHawks of the Class AAA Pacific Coast League, where he struggled with a 7.50 ERA.^[2]

 

WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU GETTING THAT HE WAS ALMOST OUT OF BASEBALL?

Simply based on a small sample size from OKC?

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

LOL so now the guys that did pan out - IE turning Quintana from a literal released minor league journeyman in the making into a top 20 SP in baseball, and Sale - don't count for development... John Danks was looking pretty good pre-injury. Turned Gavin Floyd into the arm everyone thought wasn't possible. Got the most out of a 98th round pick in Mark Buehrle. They've developed more starters than 90% of baseball teams. 

Those guys were in AAA before they even got here. I don't give them credit for any of them. Floyd was below average and Danks was a #3 before he got hurt. 

Quintana doesn't either. He was up relatively soon after he got signed by the Sox. Blind Squirrel/Nut. 

The fact is most of those guys spent minimal, if any time in in the Sox minors. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[GermanSoxFan]

These takes are just scorching hot ?

 

btw. Dallas Keuchel had a 5+ ERA his first 2 seasons in the big leagues.

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

LOL so now the guys that did pan out - IE turning Quintana from a literal released minor league journeyman in the making into a top 20 SP in baseball, and Sale - don't count for development... John Danks was looking pretty good pre-injury. Turned Gavin Floyd into the arm everyone thought wasn't possible. Got the most out of a 98th round pick in Mark Buehrle. They've developed more starters than 90% of baseball teams. 

Let’s see how Cooper adjusts to the new era of baseball.  I have my doubts he will adjust.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

LOL so now the guys that did pan out - IE turning Quintana from a literal released minor league journeyman in the making into a top 20 SP in baseball, and Sale - don't count for development... John Danks was looking pretty good pre-injury. Turned Gavin Floyd into the arm everyone thought wasn't possible. Got the most out of a 98th round pick in Mark Buehrle. They've developed more starters than 90% of baseball teams. 

That would be true if you went 1999-2010 or you could even extend to 2012.

The track record since Floyd/Danks in 2007-08 hasn't been that great, at all.   Hudson...who we dumped after 3 starts for Jackson.  Phil Humber?   You're acting like it's 2005/06 and Jose Contreras is back to being the best pitcher in all of baseball.

Don Cooper is still his same irascible, moody self...it's just that he's gotten TOO comfortable the last decade, and is living based on the approach/es of a different era of baseball that doesn't exist anymore.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

These takes are just scorching hot ?

 

btw. Dallas Keuchel had a 5+ ERA his first 2 seasons in the big leagues.

We can look at Jose Altuve and Mike Trout their first year/s in the big leagues as well, yes?

THE POINT IS TALENT IDENTIFICATION, and EVEN RESULTS/IMPROVEMENT.  Not falling off the map like Gordon Beckham or Dayan Viciedo after promising starts.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

That would be true if you went 1999-2010 or you could even extend to 2012.

The track record since Floyd/Danks in 2007-08 hasn't been that great, at all.   Hudson...who we dumped after 3 starts for Jackson.  Phil Humber?   You're acting like it's 2005/06 and Jose Contreras is back to being the best pitcher in all of baseball.

Don Cooper is still his same irascible, moody self...it's just that he's gotten TOO comfortable the last decade, and is living based on the approach/es of a different era of baseball that doesn't exist anymore.

Preach caulfield. 

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Those guys were in AAA before they even got here. I don't give them credit for any of them. Floyd was below average and Danks was a #3 before he got hurt. 

Let's not go too far into revisionist history. Quintana was released from the minors because he sucked. Floyd was bad before the Sox got him. Danks was better than a 3rd starter prior to injury. You can justify your anger about not signing Machado  but jeez.

[GreenSox]

23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Wrong - Astros lost 88, 86, 106, 107, 111, and 92 games before they won 86 (LOL at took 3 years)

Wrong - Cubs lost 87, 91, 101, 96 and 89 before they won 97 games (LOL at 3 years)

I'm not even going to address the absurdity that is the Brewers comment:

Everything you posted is factually wrong.

Not wrong  -check when Luhnow, Theo and the Brewers GM arrived.
But this is the typical analysis of the Hahn apologist.  They don't count Hahn's losing years before he started "the rebuild" but they do count the losing seasons of other teams before they brought in the new GM to fix it.
 

Edited February 21, 2019 by GreenSox

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

After his junior year at Arkansas, the Houston Astros selected Keuchel in the seventh round of the 2009 Major League Baseball (MLB) draft.^[3] He signed with the Astros and began his professional career with the Tri-City ValleyCats of the Class A-Short Season New York–Penn League, where he had a 2.70 ERA. He began the 2010 season with the Lancaster JetHawks of the Class A-Advanced California League. After posting a 3.36 ERA, the Astros promoted him to the Corpus Christi Hooks of the Class AA Texas League in July, where he had a 4.70 ERA for the remainder of the season. He began the 2011 season with Corpus Christi, and after pitching to a 3.17 ERA, received a promotion to the Oklahoma City RedHawks of the Class AAA Pacific Coast League, where he struggled with a 7.50 ERA.^[2]

 

WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU GETTING THAT HE WAS ALMOST OUT OF BASEBALL?

Simply based on a small sample size from OKC?

Uh no Caulfield, I'm getting that from his 5.2 ERA over his first 2 MLB seasons encompassing 240 innings - with WHIPS above 1.55. He struck out 38 guys in his first 85 pro innings and walked 39. 

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Let’s see how Cooper adjusts to the new era of baseball.  I have my doubts he will adjust.

Well see how long the new era of baseball lasts before too many injuries knock out to many young pitchers. The new era may need to adjust as well.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

We can look at Jose Altuve and Mike Trout their first year/s in the big leagues as well, yes?

THE POINT IS TALENT IDENTIFICATION, and EVEN RESULTS/IMPROVEMENT.  Not falling off the map like Gordon Beckham or Dayan Viciedo after promising starts.

You're one of the dopes ripping the Sox young guys for not succeeding right away. Someone asked to name one rebuild that had a pitcher like Gio and a hitter like Moncada - struggles. I pointed to Baez and Keuchel. Seems to me they're pretty good comparisons but what do I know.

[GermanSoxFan]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

We can look at Jose Altuve and Mike Trout their first year/s in the big leagues as well, yes?

THE POINT IS TALENT IDENTIFICATION, and EVEN RESULTS/IMPROVEMENT.  Not falling off the map like Gordon Beckham or Dayan Viciedo after promising starts.

Keep moving those goalposts?

 

I think this is what people here call "getting caulfielded"

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Uh no Caulfield, I'm getting that from his 5.2 ERA over his first 2 MLB seasons encompassing 240 innings - with WHIPS above 1.55. He struck out 38 guys in his first 85 pro innings and walked 39. 

It's called DEVELOPMENT.

Something the White Sox haven't excelled in since 2008 with Alexei/Carlos Quentin/Danks/Floyd.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Let's not go too far into revisionist history. Quintana was released from the minors because he sucked. Floyd was bad before the Sox got him. Danks was better than a 3rd starter prior to injury. You can justify your anger about not signing Machado  but jeez.

Floyd was bad and they turned him into a #4/5. Great. I guess I can give them a wee bit of credit for Quintana. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You're one of the dopes ripping the Sox young guys for not succeeding right away. Someone asked to name one rebuild that had a pitcher like Gio and a hitter like Moncada - struggles. I pointed to Baez and Keuchel. Seems to me they're pretty good comparisons but what do I know.

Moncada/Baez I'll give you, but Giolito and Keuchel are completely different as pitchers...and in terms of expectations, Giolito was projected to be the best RH pitcher in baseball, Keuchel was a lightly-regarded 7th round draft pick out of Danny Wright's University of Arkansas.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Let's not go too far into revisionist history. Quintana was released from the minors because he sucked. Floyd was bad before the Sox got him. Danks was better than a 3rd starter prior to injury. You can justify your anger about not signing Machado  but jeez.

Even if I give them credit for those guys, as generous as I can be, the best starting pitcher they have developed since 2012 is a pitcher that they spent a #3 overall draft pick to get who has put up 5.7 fWAR in 4 seasons total. They MUST do better than this. It's not like they haven't drafted pitchers in 6 years, it's not like they haven't put assets into that position, they just haven't done anything.