Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Those guys were in AAA before they even got here. I don't give them credit for any of them. Floyd was below average and Danks was a #3 before he got hurt. Quintana doesn't either. He was up relatively soon after he got signed by the Sox. Blind Squirrel/Nut. The fact is most of those guys spent minimal, if any time in in the Sox minors. Floyd had a 4 year stretch with a 2.2, 4.0, 4.1, and 3.2 WAR - he was far from "below average." He didn't sustain it after that for many reasons, but he was a - WAR player before he got to the Sox. You give the White Sox zero credit for things they do well. The worst part about the Manny thing is that your pessimistic bullshit can be taken as gospel to some again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You're one of the dopes ripping the Sox young guys for not succeeding right away. Someone asked to name one rebuild that had a pitcher like Gio and a hitter like Moncada - struggles. I pointed to Baez and Keuchel. Seems to me they're pretty good comparisons but what do I know. Logically I don't disagree. They play for the Sox, therefore they suck. Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Floyd had a 4 year stretch with a 2.2, 4.0, 4.1, and 3.2 WAR - he was far from "below average." He didn't sustain it after that for many reasons, but he was a - WAR player before he got to the Sox. You give the White Sox zero credit for things they do well. The worst part about the Manny thing is that your pessimistic bullshit can be taken as gospel to some again. Floyd was Javy Vazquez part deux. The advanced stats loved him, he actually sucked. Two guys who underperformed their metrics consistently. Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes, Keith Law... the same guy who stuck to Chris Sale not being a starter in the big leagues three years into his career following a 2nd in the Cy Young voting. Now people cite the guy who is the lowest of the countless sources on the Sox system and parrot him as the expert of experts. Hey KLaw, remember that time 10 years ago you and the entire industry were wrong about one of the most unconventional pitchers in baseball history?!? Yea! Suck on that, KLaw!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: We can look at Jose Altuve and Mike Trout their first year/s in the big leagues as well, yes? THE POINT IS TALENT IDENTIFICATION, and EVEN RESULTS/IMPROVEMENT. Not falling off the map like Gordon Beckham or Dayan Viciedo after promising starts. Wait, so the White Sox don't get credit for Sale, Q and etc development in the big leagues because it happened in the big leagues, but they deserve the blame for Gordon Beckham not continuing his development in the big leagues? Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Wait, so the White Sox don't get credit for Sale, Q and etc development in the big leagues because it happened in the big leagues, but they deserve the blame for Gordon Beckham not continuing his development in the big leagues? Amazing. Sale's two years with Boston were better than any single season with the Sox, but I digress. Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Floyd was Javy Vazquez part deux. The advanced stats loved him, he actually sucked. This is not fair at all to Gavin. He was a solid pitcher. He never could turn into the consistent ace that his stuff might have allowed, but he was absolutely a good quality pitcher for us for a number of years. He was a solid middle of the order pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: This is not fair at all to Gavin. He was a solid pitcher. He never could turn into the consistent ace that his stuff might have allowed, but he was absolutely a good quality pitcher for us for a number of years. He was a solid middle of the order pitcher. He only put up an ERA below 4.00 once. He was Vazquez. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/floydga01.shtml Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Driveline miracles, baby!!! He's rediscovered the missing magic after everyone tinkered with him, and pushed him to the big leagues well before he was ready. Do you honestly believe Nova or even Rodon are part of the long-term solution in Chicago? Of course not. Same with Banuelos and Medeiros. All of the focus should be on Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Dunning and getting whatever they can out of Covey and Fulmer. I have a million more times faith in Banuelos, Medeiros, and especially Rodon than I do in Covey and Fulmer. Both those two have stunk for years. God Damn, Covey is 5 and 21 for a career, and Fulmer was terrible in both the majors and AAA last year. Set those two free and look someplace else. Anyplace else, including Banuelos and Medeiros. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Not wrong -check when Luhnow, Theo and the Brewers GM arrived. But this is the typical analysis of the Hahn apologist. They don't count Hahn's losing years before he started "the rebuild" but they do count the losing seasons of other teams before they brought in the new GM to fix it. So Luhnow didn't use any of the players drafted prior to his arrival? That's weird... Altuve was drafted by someone else. Keuchel - drafted by someone else. George Springer? You guessed it, drafted by someone else. He hit on Bregman and Correa - Correa was 1-1 and a lock pick at that spot. Colin Mchugh? Drafted by another GM. Marwin Gonzalez? Same, drafted before Luhnow. So if you want to give Luhnow credit for the success of the prior GM, go right ahead. Has he made sharp moves? Sure. The Cole, Verlander and etc stuff all came after the Astros started to turn the corner and win games though. He didn't lock anyone up before the success had shown itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Hey KLaw, remember that time 10 years ago you and the entire industry were wrong about one of the most unconventional pitchers in baseball history?!? Yea! Suck on that, KLaw!!!!! 100% wrong. Most scouts gave Sale's slider a 60 or 70. Law gave it a 40 and said it was not a MLB pitch. The lower grades by some from Sale were due to injury concerns - Laws concerns were 100% stuff related. I have his scouting report saved on my desktop at home somewhere. I'll have to find it. It's comically bad. Law takes bold stances against the industry to look smart if by chance he's right. He's not some uber sharp scouting personality. Edited February 21, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Floyd had a 4 year stretch with a 2.2, 4.0, 4.1, and 3.2 WAR - he was far from "below average." He didn't sustain it after that for many reasons, but he was a - WAR player before he got to the Sox. You give the White Sox zero credit for things they do well. The worst part about the Manny thing is that your pessimistic bullshit can be taken as gospel to some again. I wasn't pessimistic about the players in the rebuild until I figured out HOW they fucked up the Manny signing. The incompetence and buffoonery was staggering. I will go find what I posted before this all came to light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So Luhnow didn't use any of the players drafted prior to his arrival? That's weird... Altuve was drafted by someone else. Keuchel - drafted by someone else. George Springer? You guessed it, drafted by someone else. He hit on Bregman and Correa - Correa was 1-1 and a lock pick at that spot. Colin Mchugh? Drafted by another GM. Marwin Gonzalez? Same, drafted before Luhnow. So if you want to give Luhnow credit for the success of the prior GM, go right ahead. Has he made sharp moves? Sure. The Cole, Verlander and etc stuff all came after the Astros started to turn the corner and win games though. He didn't lock anyone up before the success had shown itself. Correa was NOT a lock pick. And so no hum, he just drafted two of the best young players in the game, and all the previous players achieved their ceiling under him. Thats called player development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bmags said: Correa was NOT a lock pick. And so no hum, he just drafted two of the best young players in the game, and all the previous players achieved their ceiling under him. Thats called player development. He was the fastest rising prospect in the country and 1-1 on many boards. Lock is a stretch by me, but he was a near consensus pick by sharper organizations come draft day. Bregman was the 2nd pick in the draft. Bregman was far from a star as a rookie too. White Sox have had some bad luck in drafts combined with being bad at drafting and you run into some shit. White Sox were going to take Buster Posey, but he went the pick before them. Sox get the 7th pick and stuck with Fulmer when Tucker, Rodgers, Bregman and Dansby were drafted in 4 of the 6 spots in front of them... and frankly, beside Walker Buehler (who wasn't picked until late 1st) there's no one you're kicking yourself for missing out on... unless you're an ian happ fan. Edited February 21, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Waffleson Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: He was the fastest rising prospect in the country and 1-1 on many boards. Lock is a stretch by me, but he was a near consensus pick by sharper organizations come draft day. Bregman was the 2nd pick in the draft. Bregman was far from a star as a rookie too. White Sox have had some bad luck in drafts combined with being bad at drafting and you run into some shit. White Sox were going to take Buster Posey, but he went the pick before them. Sox get the 7th pick and stuck with Fulmer when Tucker, Rodgers, Bregman and Dansby were drafted in 4 of the 6 spots in front of them... and frankly, beside Walker Buehler (who wasn't picked until late 1st) there's no one you're kicking yourself for missing out on... unless you're an ian happ fan. Mike trout. Alot of teams did though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) This shit is seriously like porn for Caufield and Jack Parkham. I still can't believe you guys let yourselves get all worked up for a big splash in FA when we haven't signed a big FA for like 22 years. I mean, duh? Edited February 21, 2019 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 100% wrong. Most scouts gave Sale's slider a 60 or 70. Law gave it a 40 and said it was not a MLB pitch. The lower grades by some from Sale were due to injury concerns - Laws concerns were 100% stuff related. I have his scouting report saved on my desktop at home somewhere. I'll have to find it. It's comically bad. Law takes bold stances against the industry to look smart if by chance he's right. He's not some uber sharp scouting personality. Hey KLaw, Remember that time 10 years ago you misevaluated an unconventional college lefties slider!?! Yea!!! Suck on that, KLaw!!! You seem fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said: Hey KLaw, Remember that time 10 years ago you misevaluated an unconventional college lefties slider!?! Yea!!! Suck on that, KLaw!!! You seem fun. What? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Someone tell me what the plan is now to win? Do we just count on every one of our prospects to work out and then add a couple of the standard overpriced declining veteran FAs that this FO is perfect at adding? what if Moncada is what he is? What if Kopech doesn’t come back right. What if Gio continues to suck. What if Collins can’t hit or catch in the big leagues. Lopez likely to regress based on peripherals. What if Burger isn’t the same. Even assuming Eloy is a superstar, which is a big IF we all seem to take as a certainty, if half of those players fail, we’ll end up a 75 to 80 win team with a superstar who can’t wait to get the hell out of here because he knows the FO will never pay up to be a winner or pay him when time comes to be a FA for that matter. The future is not bright.... worse part is, Hahn will likely spend money just to prove the Sox will spend money, and it will be all on total crap FAs that bring this team back to the melky and la roche mired in mediocrity days. Then when the time comes to spend on another FA, they’ll cry poor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Special K said: Someone tell me what the plan is now to win? Do we just count on every one of our prospects to work out and then add a couple of the standard overpriced declining veteran FAs that this FO is perfect at adding? what if Moncada is what he is? What if Kopech doesn’t come back right. What if Gio continues to suck. What if Collins can’t hit or catch in the big leagues. Lopez likely to regress based on peripherals. What if Burger isn’t the same. Even assuming Eloy is a superstar, which is a big IF we all seem to take as a certainty, if half of those players fail, we’ll end up a 75 to 80 win team with a superstar who can’t wait to get the hell out of here because he knows the FO will never pay up to be a winner or pay him when time comes to be a FA for that matter. The future is not bright.... worse part is, Hahn will likely spend money just to prove the Sox will spend money, and it will be all on total crap FAs that bring this team back to the melky and la roche mired in mediocrity days. Then when the time comes to spend on another FA, they’ll cry poor If everyone sucks they'll suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I love the 'we still plan on spending the $' mention from Hahn. Sure.... you'll spend it on a bunch of mediocre joes like Todd Frazier and Melky Cabrera. The guy who ironically made the 'mired in mediocrity' quote as the guy who makes mediocre offers to generational talent. No chance in hell Harper, Arenado, MadBum or any other superstar would consider coming here when they will simply get low-balled by JR and his thrifty puppets known as Kenny "I'll never be fired" Williams and Rick "I say fancy bullcrap" Hahn. But hey, remember Sox fans, we should be proud of the effort they made to land these superstars. Since JR bought the team, the White Sox have made the playoffs 5 times. 5 times in 38 seasons! They haven't made the post season since 2008. Since that time 26 other teams made the playoffs at least once AND many of those teams have fired their GM's due to a lack of success. Meanwhile RH and KW keep strumming along and JR's commitment to winning remains questionable. Why do we cheer for this team? All they will do is let us down, over and over and over and over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Eloy Jimenez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Special K said: Someone tell me what the plan is now to win? Do we just count on every one of our prospects to work out and then add a couple of the standard overpriced declining veteran FAs that this FO is perfect at adding? what if Moncada is what he is? What if Kopech doesn’t come back right. What if Gio continues to suck. What if Collins can’t hit or catch in the big leagues. Lopez likely to regress based on peripherals. What if Burger isn’t the same. Even assuming Eloy is a superstar, which is a big IF we all seem to take as a certainty, if half of those players fail, we’ll end up a 75 to 80 win team with a superstar who can’t wait to get the hell out of here because he knows the FO will never pay up to be a winner or pay him when time comes to be a FA for that matter. The future is not bright.... worse part is, Hahn will likely spend money just to prove the Sox will spend money, and it will be all on total crap FAs that bring this team back to the melky and la roche mired in mediocrity days. Then when the time comes to spend on another FA, they’ll cry poor If all this happened, they would suck anyway and be saddled with Machado's contract. What's the difference? Machado isn't Lebron. He doesn't make or break anything. Jimenez, Moncada, Kopech etc make or break this rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: If everyone sucks they'll suck. That’s why you add FA superstars when you’re payroll is the bottom of baseball and the big boys aren’t bidding, to hedge your risk if your prospects don’t work out 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: If all this happened, they would suck anyway and be saddled with Machado's contract. What's the difference? Machado isn't Lebron. He doesn't make or break anything. Jimenez, Moncada, Kopech etc make or break this rebuild. You’re right. So why ever try then for big FA. No use. Plus owners continue to rake in the cash by saving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.