Why Preller >>> Hahn

[caulfield12]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

When it boils down to it, in 2015 the Sox and the Padres were pretty much the same team. A stars and scrubs roster, that had traded valuable prospects to fill holes with short term rentals and expensive veteran FA. The Padres, so far, have done everything better than the Sox. The Padres have a better farm system than the Sox despite having to entice others to take some of their contracts with assets, and only having one player worth a damn in a rental situation.  The Sox had 3 players on long-term deals, one of them being a top 5 pitcher in the game, and they STILL couldn't do better than the Padres at building a farm system. The Padres also blew it up earlier. Imagine what the Sox could have received in trade if they decided to sell in the 2015-16 offseason? 

The probably wouldn’t have gotten Jimenez and Cease though...the timing on that couldn’t have been any more perfect, even though most of us were worried it was too late to extract maximum value on Q.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The probably wouldn’t have gotten Jimenez and Cease though...the timing on that couldn’t have been any more perfect, even though most of us were worried it was too late to extract maximum value on Q.

Probably not, but that had to more with Theo fucking up than anything else. Quintana had clearly regressed as a pitcher and the Sox still got a return like he was pitching at 2015-16 levels. That was the peak of his career. You can't count on that. I mean, we were all expecting something like what the Archer to Pirates deal ended up netting the Rays. If you would have asked me in June 2017 if the Sox were going to get someone as good as Eloy in that deal, I would have asked if I could have some of what you're smoking. We were expecting a return similar to what Yelich got for the Brewers. Eloy/Cease ALMOST makes up for Tatis. Almost. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[JoshPR]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Isn’t that the GM’s job to articulate for such changes?

Preller was pushed to rebuild on the fly, it flopped...they went huge into Latin American signings and the GM was able to successfully convince a much poorer ownership group to extend themselves.

If it wasn’t just now...when is a similar situation where the stars are perfectly in alignment ever going to arise again?  

Plausible Answer:  When the next George RR Martin Game of Thrones Book comes out.

True, and it was talked about. Looks like it ended in nothing. But you can articulate all you want if the guy with beans doesn't want to loosen up. If the sox don't wanna fork out a ton of money then start from the bottom and have a stacked farm system to be able to cover. Create your own machados, Harper's and trouts. But they can't even do that. In the last 40 years how many 1's have really panned out?? Ill tell you.. 87, 88, 89, 90

McDowell

Ventura

Thomas 

Fernandez

[JoshPR]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

Probably not, but that had to more with Theo fucking up than anything else. Quintana had clearly regressed as a pitcher and the Sox still got a return like he was pitching at 2015-16 levels. That was the peak of his career. You can't count on that. I mean, we were all expecting something like what the Archer to Pirates deal ended up netting the Rays. If you would have asked me in June 2017 if the Sox were going to get someone as good as Eloy in that deal, I would have asked if I could have some of what you're smoking. We were expecting a return similar to what Yelich got for the Brewers. Eloy/Cease ALMOST makes up for Tatis. Almost. 

My question is what level is tatis at? Isn't his k rate kinda alarming? Tatis is just that a prospect. I wonder what the comments will be if he doesn't pan out..   

[Sticky Stuff]

5 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

My question is what level is tatis at? Isn't his k rate kinda alarming? Tatis is just that a prospect. I wonder what the comments will be if he doesn't pan out..   

Hahn >>>Preller

Edited February 21, 2019 by DH in the NL

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

My question is what level is tatis at? Isn't his k rate kinda alarming? Tatis is just that a prospect. I wonder what the comments will be if he doesn't pan out..   

He finished AA as a 20 year old with a .355 obp and .500 slugging. He had a 27% k rate but just finised dwl with a 21% k rate. That's not that bad especially for his age.  That's the same k-rate that Kris Bryant had as a 22 year old. 

[JoshPR]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

He finished AA as a 20 year old with a .355 obp and .500 slugging. He had a 27% k rate but just finised dwl with a 21% k rate. That's not that bad especially for his age.  That's the same k-rate that Kris Bryant had as a 22 year old. 

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure. 

[JoshPR]

13 minutes ago, DH in the NL said:

Hahn >>>Preller

I bet lol

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure. 

He is probably going to have some swing and miss in his game but he may have some incredible power numbers when he hits his 25 year old body (may also not be a shortstop but I hate body projections because who cares you deal with it when you deal with it)

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Preller is a fantastic talent evaluator.  The guy knows a good baseball player when he sees one.  Hahn is just a smart guy with a lot of advanced degrees who knows absolutely nothing about how to put a baseball team together.  He should have stayed in a courtroom because he's overmatched in a baseball arena.

Did we forget about who signed James Shields to the huge deal in the first place?  Let's slow the rush to deify Preller here.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Did we forget about who signed James Shields to the huge deal in the first place?  Let's slow the rush to deify Preller here.

I still think preller is a bottom 3rd gm, and specifically question the moves he will make when padres need to become a contender. Despite his knack for player dev and scouting young players, he seems like a traditionalist when it comes to team construction and play.

That said, I'll take his knack for scouting over hahn's knack for contract extensions.

[Jose Abreu]

Maybe I missed it, but is nobody going to mention how much of a scumbag Preller is? Not that it makes Hahn a better GM, but it at least makes Preller a lot less likable 

[hi8is]

The sky is also blue.

[bmags]

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

Maybe I missed it, but is nobody going to mention how much of a scumbag Preller is? Not that it makes Hahn a better GM, but it at least makes Preller a lot less likable 

He should have been forced out of being GM after his injury DB episode because quite honestly it seemed more egregious to me than what Atlanta's GM did (I think both should have been forced out).

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Maybe I missed it, but is nobody going to mention how much of a scumbag Preller is? Not that it makes Hahn a better GM, but it at least makes Preller a lot less likable 

This also.  He is dirty as the Patriots.

[Jack Parkman]

For as much as we laugh at the Cubs for the Quintana trade, I think by the time it is all said and done that it will come out pretty even. I'm not expecting Cease to stay healthy, and to be honest I'm expecting Kopech and Cease to be the South Side version of Prior and Wood. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

For as much as we laugh at the Cubs for the Quintana trade, I think by the time it is all said and done that it will come out pretty even. I'm not expecting Cease to stay healthy, and to be honest I'm expecting Kopech and Cease to be the South Side version of Prior and Wood. 

Quintana's only gone downhill since the trade. Regardless of what happens to Cease I think we will win that trade by a large margin as long as Eloy meets his projection. The Cubs definitely did not get the value they were looking for when they made that trade.

[Dominikk85]

Preller is a crook but admittedly he is good, his biggest strength is the international market where he was a scout before being a gm. In this area he is indeed way superior to hahn and most GMs. 

 

But hahn generally did great in trades too and you can't blame him for Machado, had he gotten more money from jerry he might have gotten him.

Edited February 21, 2019 by [email protected]

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Isn’t that the GM’s job to articulate for such changes?

Preller was pushed to rebuild on the fly, it flopped...they went huge into Latin American signings and the GM was able to successfully convince a much poorer ownership group to extend themselves.

If it wasn’t just now...when is a similar situation where the stars are perfectly in alignment ever going to arise again?  

Plausible Answer:  When the next George RR Martin Game of Thrones Book comes out.

Don't forget when Preller was investing in Latin America  that Hahn's recent response to that was drafting and concentrating on developing RELIEF PITCHERS . You know those  guys who vary wildly from year to year in performance and are available year in and year out for fairly cheap.

Edited February 21, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Did we forget about who signed James Shields to the huge deal in the first place?  Let's slow the rush to deify Preller here.

That means little after what he traded him for.  Dumping a washed-up starter for the #2 prospect in all of baseball pretty much absolves him of the initially poor signing IMHO.  He turned the corpse of James Shields into gold.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, JoshPR said:

True, and it was talked about. Looks like it ended in nothing. But you can articulate all you want if the guy with beans doesn't want to loosen up. If the sox don't wanna fork out a ton of money then start from the bottom and have a stacked farm system to be able to cover. Create your own machados, Harper's and trouts. But they can't even do that. In the last 40 years how many 1's have really panned out?? Ill tell you.. 87, 88, 89, 90

McDowell

Ventura

Thomas 

Fernandez

Sale was ok.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Did we forget about who signed James Shields to the huge deal in the first place?  Let's slow the rush to deify Preller here.

Did we forget that the James Shield the Padres signed came off a very good year where he came in 18th in MVP voting in 2014 and was 11th in Cy Young voting in 2013 ?

Or did we forget when James Shields started to suck in his 2nd year with the Padres they quickly got rid of him for He Who Shall NOT Be Named to the clueless White Sox even though he was just blasted by San Diego's management for sucking so badly and despite continuing to suck that the Sox kept him for 3 full years ?

Did we forget that after the trade the thread here was almost universally against the trade despite not even knowing who HWSNBN was and who he was going to become ?

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Did we forget that the James Shield the Padres signed came off a very good year where he came in 18th in MVP voting in 2014 and was 11th in Cy Young voting in 2013 ?

Or did we forget when James Shields started to suck in his 2nd year with the Padres they quickly got rid of him for He Who Shall NOT Be Named to the clueless White Sox even though he was just blasted by San Diego's management for sucking so badly and despite continuing to suck that the Sox kept him for 3 full years ?

Did we forget that after the trade the thread here was almost universally against the trade despite not even knowing who HWSNBN was and who he was going to become ?

The comp they are using for Tatis Jr. now is pretty funny. Manny Machado.

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The comp they are using for Tatis Jr. now is pretty funny. Manny Machado.

Son of a b**** lol

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, JoshPR said:

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure. 

He is also ranked #2 by MLB Pipeline ahead of Eloy Jimenez who is #3 in the Top 100.