soxfan49 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: So would I, but that doesn't change the fact that if Machado flopped like Heyward, the fans would be b****ing for the next decade and the consequences would be disastrous. Just like if the rebuild fails, the consequences will be disatrous. Harper ain't coming. Trout ain't coming. Arenado isn't very good outside of Coors (and also isn't coming). It's all on Jimenez, Kopech, Moncada, Robert and Cease now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scoots said: But you have no idea if they won't sign at all. There are still some big free agent classes coming. Just because they failed to convert on this one (like Hahn said might happen) doesn't mean they won't spend a significant amount of money here in the near future. Like who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, fathom said: I know a significant number of people that have tried to cancel their season tickets. I have never seen a fan base lose so much faith in how their team is run. Making die-hard fans not care or apathetic is quite the feat for this front office to pull off. I wish there was a way to track all of those fans from 2006 and see how many of them still follow the White Sox on at least a weekly basis. Edited February 22, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: Making die-hard fans not care or apathetic is quite the feat for this front office to pull off. I wish there was a way to track all of those fans from 2006 and see how many of them still follow the White Sox on at least a werkly basis. How is this surprising to anyone? As soon as the winter meetings started and Hahn did the opposite of pumping the brakes, we knew this letdown was possible. Then they acted so damn cocky at soxfest to the point it almost seems we got trolled. The fans aren’t pissed this week because the Sox are rebuilding, they’re pissed at the ineptitude of the Sox FO in executing their plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan49 said: Like who? And will anyone actually in believe them until it happens...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Like who? Sorry it took so long but here ya go. Feast your eyes... https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-free-agents-for-2020-2021-and-2022/c-302396056 "If all the players in line for free agency in the 2021-22 offseason actually reached the open market, it might be one of the best classes ever" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, fathom said: I know a significant number of people that have tried to cancel their season tickets. I have never seen a fan base lose so much faith in how their team is run. I hope they do more than try. I hope they all are success with the cancel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scoots said: Sorry it took so long but here ya go. Feast your eyes... https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-free-agents-for-2020-2021-and-2022/c-302396056 "If all the players in line for free agency in the 2021-22 offseason actually reached the open market, it might be one of the best classes ever" Baez, Bryant, Lindor will all be getting deals above $300m so unless you think they're going to change their minds on guaranteed money, none of those guys are coming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Baez, Bryant, Lindor will all be getting deals above $300m so unless you think they're going to change their minds on guaranteed money, none of those guys are coming here. Like I said, people will always find a way to find the negative in things. Even with this mega free agency class that's coming, free agency isn't everything. They will still have trade options as well, which we full know trades are Hahn's specialty (except for Tatis obv). Other options I'm sure will become available, such as those on the international market or those we are not even capable of knowing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, fathom said: How is this surprising to anyone? As soon as the winter meetings started and Hahn did the opposite of pumping the brakes, we knew this letdown was possible. Then they acted so damn cocky at soxfest to the point it almost seems we got trolled. The fans aren’t pissed this week because the Sox are rebuilding, they’re pissed at the ineptitude of the Sox FO in executing their plan. SS2k5 had said it from the beginning...but even he couldn't have assume that things would go so poorly. We all got spoiled by how seemingly easy it was for the Cubs and Astros. In reality, I have a sneaking suspicion we're going to pull off a string of Hail Mary, desperation moves like the Cincinnati Reds heading into next year in order to at least create the illusion of competitiveness, but none of the fans will buy it anymore after watching this tired dog & pony show for the past decade plus. The front office and marketing department will be completely befuddled by the tepid response. Then we'll get a recycling of the KW quotes about not spending $1 if you only have 50 cents and the cycle will repeat itself until someone smacks Kenny across the face and tells him to wake up to reality. WE'RE NOT DOING YOU A FAVOR TO SHOW UP UNTIL YOU SHOW UP FOR US. Edited February 22, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Comparing Dunn to Harper is pretty much blasphemy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Scoots said: Like I said, people will always find a way to find the negative in things. Even with this mega free agency class that's coming, free agency isn't everything. They will still have trade options as well, which we full know trades are Hahn's specialty (except for Tatis obv). Other options I'm sure will become available, such as those on the international market or those we are not even capable of knowing right now. Other than Cease/Jimenez...what specialty are you talking about, exactly? Adam Eaton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Other than Cease/Jimenez...what specialty are you talking about, exactly? Adam Eaton? Any prospect that might boom in the next couple years? Basabe? Rutherford? Dunning? Gonzales? Bush? Madrigal? That Adam Eaton comment doesn't make sense in the context you're giving me. Edited February 22, 2019 by Scoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Scoots said: Any prospect that might boom in the next couple years? Basabe? Rutherford? Dunning? Gonzales? Bush? That Adam Eaton comment doesn't make sense in the context you're giving me. I was referring to the previous post about "trades being Hahn's specialty." Trying to think of any...obviously, a LOT of posters felt Giolito/Lopez/Dunning was a win, but the bloom has come off that rose with Giolito putting up the worst statistical season of any qualified starter in MLB last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Like who? Said it in another thread but guys like JDM, Goldschmidt, Puig, Grandal, Hicks are all reasonable targets next winter. Maybe they’re not a 26 year old “super star” but they’re all damn good players that are certainly a step above any FA the Sox have signed in the past two decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: I was referring to the previous post about "trades being Hahn's specialty." Trying to think of any...obviously, a LOT of posters felt Giolito/Lopez/Dunning was a win, but the bloom has come off that rose with Giolito putting up the worst statistical season of any qualified starter in MLB last year. I personally think Lopez develops into an TOR starter this year. If he and Dunning pan out and Gio doesnt, the trade is still a win IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Scoots said: I personally think Lopez develops into an TOR starter this year. If he and Dunning pan out and Gio doesnt, the trade is still a win IMO. If Lopez develops into a TOR starter this year and beyond, it’s a win regardless of what Gio and Dunning become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: If Lopez develops into a TOR starter this year and beyond, it’s a win regardless of what Gio and Dunning become. Well compared to what Eaton is worth now sure because injuries have made him practically worthless. But here's the question that should be asked in reply - what are you defining as TOR? If he's Jacob DeGrom next year...YAY! If he's a 4 WAR starter like Quintana 1 year and then follows the Gavin Floyd path of inconsistent years afterwards, is that good enough, have you counted #2/#3 guys as TOR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Said it in another thread but guys like JDM, Goldschmidt, Puig, Grandal, Hicks are all reasonable targets next winter. Maybe they’re not a 26 year old “super star” but they’re all damn good players that are certainly a step above any FA the Sox have signed in the past two decades. Arenado, Anthony Rendon, Gerrit Cole,Marcell Ozuna ,Xander Bogaerts, Madison Bumgarner, Chris Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylo Kneehigh Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, JoshPR said: Comparing Dunn to Harper is pretty much blasphemy Tongue in cheek. Look it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Well compared to what Eaton is worth now sure because injuries have made him practically worthless. But here's the question that should be asked in reply - what are you defining as TOR? If he's Jacob DeGrom next year...YAY! If he's a 4 WAR starter like Quintana 1 year and then follows the Gavin Floyd path of inconsistent years afterwards, is that good enough, have you counted #2/#3 guys as TOR? I define TOR as a top 30 starter in MLB. I don’t consider a #1 on a 100 loss team a TOR necessarily. A top 30 starter in MLB with another 5 years of cheap control would be more valuable than Eaton’s worth at the time of trade (not even considering the injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Arenado, Anthony Rendon, Gerrit Cole,Marcell Ozuna ,Xander Bogaerts, Madison Bumgarner, Chris Sale. Oh yea but I’m trying to be realistic for the naysayers. Guys you mentioned are tier 1, although I think some may be realistic targets for WS since it’s a deep FA class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I define TOR as a top 30 starter in MLB. I don’t consider a #1 on a 100 loss team a TOR necessarily. A top 30 starter in MLB with another 5 years of cheap control would be more valuable than Eaton’s worth at the time of trade (not even considering the injury). The #30 starter last year in fWAR was Rick Porcello with 2.7 fWAR. I would not be satisfied with the Eaton trade if the best we got out of it was a guy who averaged 2.7 fWAR per year. I'm not sure I'd be ok with Rick Porcello, who basically averages 2.5 fWAR every year except 1 year randomly dropped 5.2 and won the Cy Young. Jon Gray and David Price both tied with Rick Porcello at 2.7 fWAR last year and at least in the regular season both of them were disappointments. Top 30 really isn't that impressive, not given what Eaton should have been worth coming off a 5.8 fWAR season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: The #30 starter last year in fWAR was Rick Porcello with 2.7 fWAR. I would not be satisfied with the Eaton trade if the best we got out of it was a guy who averaged 2.7 fWAR per year. I'm not sure I'd be ok with Rick Porcello, who basically averages 2.5 fWAR every year except 1 year randomly dropped 5.2 and won the Cy Young. Jon Gray and David Price both tied with Rick Porcello at 2.7 fWAR last year and at least in the regular season both of them were disappointments. Top 30 really isn't that impressive, not given what Eaton should have been worth coming off a 5.8 fWAR season. You’re looking at 2018 only. #30 qualified starter over the last 3 years (Cole Hamels) accumulated 11.0 fWAR (~3.7 per season). I’d take that for the next 5 years with ridiculous flexibility and affordability associated with pre arb and arb players than Eaton and his contract entering his age 28 season and basically a 3.7 fWAR player if not for the outlier 2016 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Arenado, Anthony Rendon, Gerrit Cole,Marcell Ozuna ,Xander Bogaerts, Madison Bumgarner, Chris Sale. Ozuna's been far too inconsistent to include on that list right now...but you could have said 2-3 years ago he might be better than Yelich and had a legitimate argument about it. With the rule of White Sox FA acquisitions, he'd undoubtedly play more like Ozuna did in 2018 with the Cardinals than his 2017 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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