Timmy U Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Ugh. First of all, this idea is just immoral. Second, why would anyone want to watch more Jon Jay if they don’t have to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 43 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: It is a radical idea but one that I think the Sox should consider. Eloy means absolutely nothing to the major league team in 2019. Bring him up in May 2020 alongside Kopech, Robert, Madrigal, and Cease. Let the kids develop in 2020 and get after winning the division in 2021. I do think that it is important to have waves of talents that hit FA in different years. First wave will be Moncada, Anderson, Lopez and Gio. Second wave Kopech, Eloy and Cease. Third wave Robert, Madrigal, etc.... Everyone hitting FA the same offseason isn't ideal. And Eloy is ready. He will be up in late April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Timmy U said: Ugh. First of all, this idea is just immoral. Second, why would anyone want to watch more Jon Jay if they don’t have to? Immoral is a stretch. Deceitful and dishonest, I would agree with. However, keeping Eloy down another year is in the best interest of the Sox as they don't need him in 2019 because they don't plan to be competitive. The Sox should just release Jon Jay at this point and eat the 4 million. Consider it the admission cost to sit at the big boys table. Let Delmonico or Cordell play every day in left field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 15 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I have a really bad feeling the Sox put Eloy on the opening day roster in some demented way to appease the fans after the Machado (and likely Harper) miss. Maybe you shouldn't trust your feelings. They sort of betrayed you with Machado. Just like with Machado the fans don't matter when it comes to doing business. The fans only matter when looking for someone to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GamesToLove Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I'm kind of shocked by all of the ownership shills around here. Most of the rest of my baseball corners of the internet have taken on a decidedly pro-player bent over the last few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I feel they would almost certainly lose to a grievance claim if they did that, there's absolutely no way they could possibly justify keeping him down another season. Plus it's just a really scummy thing to do. Keeping him down this long already feels wrong. But this would be on another level. Are there any precedents of teams keeping guys down for two seasons after they're clearly ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said: I feel they would almost certainly lose to a grievance claim if they did that, there's absolutely no way they could possibly justify keeping him down another season. Plus it's just a really scummy thing to do. Keeping him down this long already feels wrong. But this would be on another level. Are there any precedents of teams keeping guys down for two seasons after they're clearly ready? Parts of 3 seasons when all is said and done. I would love to hear an example of a Top 10 prospect playing parts of 3 seasons at AAA. Bryant filed over parts of two seasons when added up equaled about half a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Immoral is a stretch. Deceitful and dishonest, I would agree with. Huh? In what system of morality is this a distinction? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Timmy U said: Huh? In what system of morality is this a distinction? Apparently since mid-summer 2015 in America, lol... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 hours ago, 3GamesToLove said: I'm kind of shocked by all of the ownership shills around here. Most of the rest of my baseball corners of the internet have taken on a decidedly pro-player bent over the last few years. One more guaranteed year of Eloy > one less guaranteed year of Eloy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 hours ago, 3GamesToLove said: I'm kind of shocked by all of the ownership shills around here. Most of the rest of my baseball corners of the internet have taken on a decidedly pro-player bent over the last few years. This board has long been very very tolerant of the owners and the front office types. The first majority rebellion has been caused by this winter's fake pursuit of Manny. People are pissed. Strangely enough I don't care a bit about Manny. I am way more mad about the tanking, the letting go of Avi and Davidson, the acquisition of John Jay and Alonso for gosh sakes. And of course the fact I feel we have a worst team than last year even and the rebuild is looking meh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I'm still angry that 2 years of Kopech's team control are gone because of they decided to call him up for a handful of MLB innings. The timing of his injury literally couldn't have been any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Quin said: One more guaranteed year of Eloy > one less guaranteed year of Eloy Yeah I mean. I hate the way service time is set up right now. But you have to leave him down for a few weeks. Bring him up after you get the year of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Whitesox27 said: I'm still angry that 2 years of Kopech's team control are gone because of they decided to call him up for a handful of MLB innings. The timing of his injury literally couldn't have been any worse. You should get over this. The injury is unfortunate but he needed to pitch in the majors last year. Getting his innings count higher was an absolute necessity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: You should get over this. The injury is unfortunate but he needed to pitch in the majors last year. Getting his innings count higher was an absolute necessity. Agreed. When a pitching prospect is ready I strongly believe they should be called up to the majors. The exception is with elite position player prospects like Vlad Jr, Eloy, etc. where the additional season of control down the line is very important. Predicting where a pitcher will end up in 6 seasons is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsOnMintSt Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) I like the idea of starting Eloy with the White Sox if he earns it. Yeah the extra year of control would be nice, but doing this could really lead to a strong relationship between Eloy's camp and the White Sox FO. Yeah we lose the year of control, but maybe he is more likely to sign a team-friendly contract. Or other players see that and respect the FO for doing that, making some free agents more likely to play for the Sox. Plus, we're guaranteed to have Eloy on the roster during our potentially main contention window anyway. Edited February 28, 2019 by KnightsOnMintSt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I suggest the Player’s Association negotiate better and creative roster rules for the next CBA so the time a team brings up a prospect becomes less impactful on years of control. Until then, it’s common sense what the Sox are doing, and the players should only blame their own union if they have a problem with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, KnightsOnMintSt said: I like the idea o starting Eloy with the White Sox if he earns it. Yeah the extra year of control would be nice, but doing this could really lead to a strong relationship between Eloy's camp and the White Sox FO. Yeah we lose the year of control, but maybe he is more likely to sign a team-friendly contract. Or other players see that and respect the FO for doing that, making some free agents more likely to play for the Sox. Plus, we're guaranteed to have Eloy on the roster during our potentially main contention window anyway. Kind of like Jay and Alonso guaranteed Machado...getting a clue in the front office about how to build a winning organization is much more important than anything else at this point. If you were Jimenez, you wouldn’t be likely to commit until you felt confident the Sox were going to be capable of fielding perennial pennant contenders. Heck, the Phillies can’t even convince Harper with everything positive they’ve done already this offseason to commit more than three years of his life...whereas we just keep going backwards, or are at best stuck in neutral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsOnMintSt Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Kind of like Jay and Alonso guaranteed Machado...getting a clue in the front office about how to build a winning organization is much more important than anything else at this point. If you were Jimenez, you wouldn’t be likely to commit until you felt confident the Sox were going to be capable of fielding perennial pennant contenders. Heck, the Phillies can’t even convince Harper with everything positive they’ve done already this offseason to commit more than three years of his life...whereas we just keep going backwards, or are at best stuck in neutral. I dont think that anyone thought that getting Jay and Alonso guaranteed Machado, unless it was the tipping point (White Sox and Padres make identical offers). This idea is also not a guarantee. But could be smart when you're talking about a guy like Eloy. He has the potential to be one of the best players in baseball, and I want the White Sox to do anything they feel necessary to keep him with the team for as long as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, KnightsOnMintSt said: I dont think that anyone thought that getting Jay and Alonso guaranteed Machado, unless it was the tipping point (White Sox and Padres make identical offers). This idea is also not a guarantee. But could be smart when you're talking about a guy like Eloy. He has the potential to be one of the best players in baseball, and I want the White Sox to do anything they feel necessary to keep him with the team for as long as possible. Maybe not 100% guaranteed (since nothing in life is), but at least 75%, because the feeling was that failing after taking those drastic or desperation measures would make Hahn look like the biggest buffoon since the Bozo Show on WGN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, KnightsOnMintSt said: I like the idea o starting Eloy with the White Sox if he earns it. Yeah the extra year of control would be nice, but doing this could really lead to a strong relationship between Eloy's camp and the White Sox FO. Yeah we lose the year of control, but maybe he is more likely to sign a team-friendly contract. Or other players see that and respect the FO for doing that, making some free agents more likely to play for the Sox. Plus, we're guaranteed to have Eloy on the roster during our potentially main contention window anyway. This post is just the worst. You win and you do it as long as possible. You control your assets as long as possible. You don't give away value on a whim. It's unbelievable people feel this way. Superstars will go wherever they want regardless of how nice the FO is to them. This is a business. You get that extra year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, AustinIllini said: This post is just the worst. You win and you do it as long as possible. You control your assets as long as possible. You don't give away value on a whim. It's unbelievable people feel this way. Superstars will go wherever they want regardless of how nice the FO is to them. This is a business. You get that extra year. This post is just the worst. This is a business. To attract the best employees these days, you have to treat them well. Companies like Google provide great work environments and compensation. To keep an employee from going to a competitor, it is best not to screw them over on a technicality that will probably be changed soon. If the player is special, treat him like you would want to be treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, 103 mph screwball said: This post is just the worst. This is a business. To attract the best employees these days, you have to treat them well. Companies like Google provide great work environments and compensation. To keep an employee from going to a competitor, it is best not to screw them over on a technicality that will probably be changed soon. If the player is special, treat him like you would want to be treated. They player will go wherever they get paid the most. This has been proven over and over and over and over and over in FA. Eloy isn't resigning with the White Sox for a discount in 6 years because they called him up 2-3 weeks earlier. To suggest that would make any meaningful difference is pretty comical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, 103 mph screwball said: This post is just the worst. This is a business. To attract the best employees these days, you have to treat them well. Companies like Google provide great work environments and compensation. To keep an employee from going to a competitor, it is best not to screw them over on a technicality that will probably be changed soon. If the player is special, treat him like you would want to be treated. Why are you comparing a publicly traded company to a franchise of a monopoly-exempt sport? They have almost nothing in common. Google employees Are employed at will and can be fired at any time Don't usually make guaranteed money are not drafted Baseball players make guaranteed money are bound by collectively bargained contracts can only move freely during free agency After signing a free agent deal, their values plummet as their talent remains the same but their pay increases exponentially The White Sox and Google have almost nothing in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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