Lip Man 1 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I thought Merkin asked some pretty good questions... https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/rick-hahn-talks-white-sox-manny-machado-pursuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: I thought Merkin asked some pretty good questions... https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/rick-hahn-talks-white-sox-manny-machado-pursuit I think Hahn & Co. should just stop talking about this, because they just continue to say things that get you more infuriated than the last time they talked about it. We don't need to hear you, Mr. Hahn, trying to take credit for being "aggressive" in the process, and then implying that their level of aggressiveness was sufficient. No, it wasn't. San Diego's, on the other hand, was. They came in late in the game and exerted the level of aggressiveness necessary to seal the deal. The Sox clearly did not, because they did not land the player. And one could argue that with an offer that guaranteed 20% less money than the bid that won, they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to take credit for any level of aggressiveness at all. What's also very annoying is this constant mention of the so-called "comfort level" that they are willing to go to. Hahn references this a few times in this article. The only comfort level they seem to have in these negotiations is one where they only get the guy if the market price somehow moves down and they can get the player at a discount. For a team with the kind of payroll flexibility the Sox currently have to be defining their comfort level at below market prices for premium talent, then this whole thing just becomes one big farce. Not every premium talent can be had at a team friendly price like what they had with Sale, Eaton, and Quintana. Sometimes the comfort level has to elevate to the level of those who are successful competing for premium talent and be prepared to pay market value for that talent. Lastly, Mr. Hahn, get your signals straight with your boss, Mr. Williams when it comes to these flimsy interviews. Don't say in an article like this one that "there's no hard line of 'No, we can never do X'". Well yes there is, you just demonstrated that just last week with Machado. Williams literally said your team - again, despite the payroll flexibility to do so - he said the team simply could not have gone to the $300M level. So there is, in fact, a "hard line", and according to Williams, the Sox can never do $300M. So the message needs to be refined not to say "we can NEVER do X" to the more truthful statement of "we WON'T do X", because that's clearly what's going on here with this team under this owner and management team. Edited February 28, 2019 by Fan O'Faust 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said: I think Hahn & Co. should just stop talking about this, because they just continue to say things that get you more infuriated than the last time they talked about it. We don't need to hear you, Mr. Hahn, trying to take credit for being "aggressive" in the process, and then implying that their level of aggressiveness was sufficient. No, it wasn't. San Diego's, on the other hand, was. They came in late in the game and exerted the level of aggressiveness necessary to seal the deal. The Sox clearly did not, because they did not land the player. And one could argue that with an offer that guaranteed 20% less money than the bid that won, they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to take credit for any level of aggressiveness at all. What's also very annoying is this constant mention of the so-called "comfort level" that they are willing to go to. Hahn references this a few times in this article. The only comfort level they seem to have in these negotiations is one where they only get the guy if the market price somehow moves down and they can get the player at a discount. For a team with the kind of payroll flexibility the Sox currently have to be defining their comfort level at below market prices for premium talent, then this whole thing just becomes one big farce. Not every premium talent can be had at a team friendly price like what they had with Sale, Eaton, and Quintana. Sometimes the comfort level has to elevate to the level of those who are successful competing for premium talent and be prepared to pay market value for that talent. Lastly, Mr. Hahn, get your signals straight with your boss, Mr. Williams when it comes to these flimsy interviews. Don't say in an article like this one that "there's no hard line of 'No, we can never do X'". Well yes there is, you just demonstrated that just last week with Machado. Williams literally said your team - again, despite the payroll flexibility to do so - he said the team simply could not have gone to the $300M level. So there is, in fact, a "hard line", and according to Williams, the Sox can never do $300M. So the message needs to be refined not to say "we can NEVER do X" to the more truthful statement of "we WON'T do X", because that's clearly what's going on here with this team under this owner and management team. It would take me forever to find it, but 3 or 4 months ago I predicted what Hahn would say when they ultimately lost out on Manny. I did mention comfort. I was the first to mention comfort. I am now an insider. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) Unless the Sox sign Harper, they blew it this year! No more excuses. Edited February 28, 2019 by Saufley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It would take me forever to find it, but 3 or 4 months ago I predicted what Hahn would say when they ultimately lost out on Manny. I did mention comfort. I was the first to mention comfort. I am now an insider. Sounds valid to me. You are the “insider” we’ve all been waiting for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It would take me forever to find it, but 3 or 4 months ago I predicted what Hahn would say when they ultimately lost out on Manny. I did mention comfort. I was the first to mention comfort. I am now an insider. I guess part of the problem is the average fan is easily flim flammed by these flimsy explanations they continue to throw out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said: I think Hahn & Co. should just stop talking about this, because they just continue to say things that get you more infuriated than the last time they talked about it. We don't need to hear you, Mr. Hahn, trying to take credit for being "aggressive" in the process, and then implying that their level of aggressiveness was sufficient. No, it wasn't. San Diego's, on the other hand, was. They came in late in the game and exerted the level of aggressiveness necessary to seal the deal. The Sox clearly did not, because they did not land the player. And one could argue that with an offer that guaranteed 20% less money than the bid that won, they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to take credit for any level of aggressiveness at all. What's also very annoying is this constant mention of the so-called "comfort level" that they are willing to go to. Hahn references this a few times in this article. The only comfort level they seem to have in these negotiations is one where they only get the guy if the market price somehow moves down and they can get the player at a discount. For a team with the kind of payroll flexibility the Sox currently have to be defining their comfort level at below market prices for premium talent, then this whole thing just becomes one big farce. Not every premium talent can be had at a team friendly price like what they had with Sale, Eaton, and Quintana. Sometimes the comfort level has to elevate to the level of those who are successful competing for premium talent and be prepared to pay market value for that talent. Lastly, Mr. Hahn, get your signals straight with your boss, Mr. Williams when it comes to these flimsy interviews. Don't say in an article like this one that "there's no hard line of 'No, we can never do X'". Well yes there is, you just demonstrated that just last week with Machado. Williams literally said your team - again, despite the payroll flexibility to do so - he said the team simply could not have gone to the $300M level. So there is, in fact, a "hard line", and according to Williams, the Sox can never do $300M. So the message needs to be refined not to say "we can NEVER do X" to the more truthful statement of "we WON'T do X", because that's clearly what's going on here with this team under this owner and management team. But it wasn’t 20%, we were actually much closer. Only 16.66% off. Going down $50 mill when starting at $300 gives you a better idea of how close the White Sox actually we’re, using the team-friendlier, fancier Rick Hahn Economics 101 calculations. Just kidding. That’s all I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, DH in the NL said: Sounds valid to me. You are the “insider” we’ve all been waiting for! The only place Hahn has a true comfort level is smoking Cuban cigars in the executive suites with KW and JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Aggressive would have been like I said in the earlier thread give Manny your best offer put a time frame on it of a week and if he doesn't accept walk away. There is nothing aggressive about what we did. Foolish is more like it. Trading for Alonso. Signing Jay weren't only dumb moves from a talent standpoint but indicated to Machado camp we were all in and weren't going anywhere and go nowhere we did as they sat on our offer for months. The other option was we could have done what the padres done and just given him whatever he wanted. That's not smart either. I don't have a problem with the offer and not going to 300 million. I think I had him 9 years at 270 as my absolute final offer and that was mainly on the basis of what Stanton got. Harper I had much lower because I think he profiles as a future JD Martinez like DH. You have to have a breaking point and noone should have a problem with that the problem was Hahn and the CWS offer were used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: But it wasn’t 20%, we were actually much closer. Only 16.66% off. Going down $50 mill when starting at $300 gives you a better idea of how close the White Sox actually we’re, using the team-friendlier, fancier Rick Hahn Economics 101 calculations. Just kidding. That’s all I got. Long time lurker, rare poster here. This is why I don't even believe the Sox offered anywhere close to $250M. You have to consider State Tax rates in this deal, it's too big not to, unless Manny truly only cared about the long term guarantee/weather/whatever. My thoughts in this are due to the potential earnings over the first 8 years. AAV of $30Mper (Pads) and $31.25Mper (Sox), CA state tax rate of 13.3% for earners over $1M, IL flat state tax of 4.95%, this equates to Manny saving $29,545,000 more over the course of 8 years if he signed with the Sox. There's some Federal Tax implications as well for no longer being able to deduct state taxes on your federal, but I'm too lazy and stupid to figure all those out. The whole thing just doesn't make a lick of sense dollars wise. Please feel free to poke any and all errors made in this statement btw if there's any CPAs out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said: Long time lurker, rare poster here. This is why I don't even believe the Sox offered anywhere close to $250M. You have to consider State Tax rates in this deal, it's too big not to, unless Manny truly only cared about the long term guarantee/weather/whatever. My thoughts in this are due to the potential earnings over the first 8 years. AAV of $30Mper (Pads) and $31.25Mper (Sox), CA state tax rate of 13.3% for earners over $1M, IL flat state tax of 4.95%, this equates to Manny saving $29,545,000 more over the course of 8 years if he signed with the Sox. There's some Federal Tax implications as well for no longer being able to deduct state taxes on your federal, but I'm too lazy and stupid to figure all those out. The whole thing just doesn't make a lick of sense dollars wise. Please feel free to poke any and all errors made in this statement btw if there's any CPAs out there. I wonder if the fact the agent gets a percentage off of the gross not net that an agent might steer to what is better for the agent. Wonder if the agent lives in a no state income tax state if he avoids the hit or is it tied to where the player is located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: I wonder if the fact the agent gets a percentage off of the gross not net that an agent might steer to what is better for the agent. Wonder if the agent lives in a no state income tax state if he avoids the hit or is it tied to where the player is located? MVP Sports Group is based out of LA, just down the road from SD on the freeway...unless he has residence in another state for tax purposes, probably somewhere like South Dakota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I said months ago the only way this whole offseason would end up embarrassing is if the Sox weren't the clear and way top bidder. They were not. This franchise is an absolute dumpster fire and will never get a cent from me until its under new ownership. They can't draft, they can't scout, they can't develop, they can't spend. They will never put a good product on the field outside of the occasional flash in the pan season every few decades. I hate that Jerry's "legacy" will be that of a winner. That cheap bastard has done nothing other than fall ass backwards into MJ when he should go down as the worst owner in the history of pro sports when you consider market + control over 2 teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 17 hours ago, jenksycat said: I said months ago the only way this whole offseason would end up embarrassing is if the Sox weren't the clear and way top bidder. They were not. This franchise is an absolute dumpster fire and will never get a cent from me until its under new ownership. They can't draft, they can't scout, they can't develop, they can't spend. They will never put a good product on the field outside of the occasional flash in the pan season every few decades. I hate that Jerry's "legacy" will be that of a winner. That cheap bastard has done nothing other than fall ass backwards into MJ when he should go down as the worst owner in the history of pro sports when you consider market + control over 2 teams. I agree with everything you just said whole heartedly as do all of my real Sox fan friends and family I've spoken with. I really hope ownership takes notice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.