bmags Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Good article here. I'll be nice with sampling. https://theathletic.com/842154/2019/02/28/lucas-giolito-is-back-in-the-lab-trying-to-start-a-prove-it-season-on-the-right-foot/ Behold, what gio looked like last year. The glove goes around laterally, which he says he struggled to maintain and caused him to go off balance, as we certainly saw. Now, I can't embed what is showing up for his new motion, but here is his description. Quote Both his glove arm and and his pitching arm stay crooked closed to his body for the vast majority of the throwing motion. If someone instructed him to try to perform the stylistic inverse of Nate Jones’ delivery, this would be a solid effort, and where Jones’ funkiness adds an extra element for hitters to deal with, the Sox are hoping deception can be a byproduct of what Giolito’s doing. the good and bad: Quote There are of course, a lot of pitchers who have larger arm swings with both arms in their delivery, because it helps transfer balance while not sacrificing force and velocity. Giolito’s new motion asks for more power from his legs to compensate, and the effects over the course of a long, ideally 200-inning season remain to be seen. good luck to the adam engel of pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: good luck to the adam engel of pitching. Ugh. You aren't wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, bmags said: Good article here. I'll be nice with sampling. https://theathletic.com/842154/2019/02/28/lucas-giolito-is-back-in-the-lab-trying-to-start-a-prove-it-season-on-the-right-foot/ Behold, what gio looked like last year. The glove goes around laterally, which he says he struggled to maintain and caused him to go off balance, as we certainly saw. Now, I can't embed what is showing up for his new motion, but here is his description. the good and bad: good luck to the adam engel of pitching. Calling him the Adam Engel of pitching isn't fair to him because that implies he never had talent to begin with. I know most are down on Gio but I haven't lost hope that he'll figure it out. I don't understand completely writing him off as a lost cause already. He's still only 24. he's only 6 months older than Dunning. Edited February 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I remember reading the write ups about this kid when he was traded for Eaton. Sox yes men like Garfien and Merkin were tweeting about an "electric fastball that touches the high 90s coupled with a devastating curve-ball" The kid then gets to the Sox and can barely hit 95 on the radar gun with the majority of his fastballs sitting around 92-93. What the heck happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: I remember reading the write ups about this kid when he was traded for Eaton. Sox yes men like Garfien and Merkin were tweeting about an "electric fastball that touches the high 90s coupled with a devastating curve-ball" The kid then gets to the Sox and can barely hit 95 on the radar gun with the majority of his fastballs sitting around 92-93. What the heck happened? The Nats really, really fucked with his delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Quin said: The Nats really, really fucked with his delivery. Exactly. He's been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. He's 100% a project and everyone that has expected quick results or his former top prospect status has been disappointed, and have written him off already. Nobody is willing to be patient with the guy and he has always been a complete wild card. Last year he proved he still has good enough stuff to be a #2, but now it is all about throwing strikes and him learning to pitch. The Sox aren't dumb, and they aren't going to punt on him until they're left with no choice. IMO he has to figure it out within the next two seasons, otherwise he's going to be the victim of a numbers game. I feel like I'm the only poster here that understands this and actually takes a rational approach. Most others wouldn't have cared if they cut him last June. The most likely scenario was exactly what has happened so far. You have to hope he turns it around over the next year or two. If these tweaks click, watch out. Edited February 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I will not have faith until he is not the literal worst pitcher in baseball. They may fix him, but he stinks and will continue to stink in my brain until he shows otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: ? You know, maybe your problem is that you guys have a different set of expectations. I've always expected him to struggle for a season or two before finding his way, and you guys are all ready to DFA him now. Nobody knows if the kid is going to ever figure it out, but.......The huge thing is is that I see progress despite the results not being there all of the time. When somebody is struggling in any aspect of life, if you only focus on the results you'll always be disappointed and there will never be any way to please you. You guys seem like the parents who expect their kids to get straight As and then your kid gets grounded if they get a B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: I will not have faith until he is not the literal worst pitcher in baseball. They may fix him, but he stinks and will continue to stink in my brain until he shows otherwise. Yep. 2019 is another tank year anyway. Let him get 25 to 30 starts and evaluate again at the end of the year. If he is terrible again like last year he will help the Sox lose games and get another top 3 pick. If he takes a step forward the Sox may have a legit #5 starter to work with or someone to sell high on and trade next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: I will not have faith until he is not the literal worst pitcher in baseball. They may fix him, but he stinks and will continue to stink in my brain until he shows otherwise. It isn't really about having faith or not having faith really. It is about using your brain and logic tells you that he was damaged goods when they acquired him. The Nationals really messed him up, and it was going to take time to fix. Roy Halladay was the worst pitcher in Baseball for a few years too. He didn't figure it out until he was 26. The result was a HOF career. Greg Maddux got lit up for the first 3 years of his career too. Kluber as well. There are countless HOF pitchers who didn't become the HOF pitcher they were until their mid-late 20s. Chris Sale is the exception, not the rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: You know, maybe your problem is that you guys have a different set of expectations. I've always expected him to struggle for a season or two before finding his way, and you guys are all ready to DFA him now. Nobody knows if the kid is going to ever figure it out, but.......The huge thing is is that I see progress despite the results not being there all of the time. When somebody is struggling in any aspect of life, if you only focus on the results you'll always be disappointed and there will never be any way to please you. You guys seem like the parents who expect their kids to get straight As and then your kid gets grounded if they get a B. It is pretty high expectations to expect him to not be the worst pitcher in baseball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bmags said: It is pretty high expectations to expect him to not be the worst pitcher in baseball. So then Moncada is a bust then too. There is no hope with him, might as well DFA him. If players don't put up All Star numbers in their first full season in the majors, they're lost causes. Moncada led baseball in Ks last year so I guess he sucks too. It was both players first full year in the Majors. They were bad. They can never get any better. Do you see how ridiculous you sound? Edited February 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: So then Moncada is a bust then too. There is no hope with him, might as well DFA him. If players don't put up All Star numbers in their first full season in the majors, they're lost causes. Moncada led baseball in Ks last year so I guess he sucks too. It was both players first full year in the Majors. They were bad. They can never get any better. Do you see how ridiculous you sound? I didn't say they couldn't get any better, that's the argument you created. Moncada had a 97 wrc+. Giolito legitimately had the worst xfip among eligible starters in baseball. If moncada gets slightly better he's above average. If giolito gets slightly better he still may be one of the worst starters in baseball. I think he will get better, he needs to get extraordinarily better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 offseasons 4 delivery tweaks and overhauls. Giolito is finished. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 4 offseasons 4 delivery tweaks and overhauls. Giolito is finished. Not so fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony said: It's like you go out of your way to just have AWFUL hot takes in every thread. Has to be exhausting. What is awful about it? I've already pointed out the last 4 off seasons of articles saying that giolito made an overhaul to his mechanics. Professional baseball players arent overhauling their mechanics every year. This is because giolito isnt very good. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: What is awful about it? I've already pointed out the last 4 off seasons of articles saying that giolito made an overhaul to his mechanics. Professional baseball players arent overhauling their mechanics every year. This is because giolito isnt very good. I'll tell you what is awful about it. Giolito WAS good. The Nationals broke something that didn't need fixing. In doing so, they completely messed up the guy's delivery. Now he's been trying to find what he lost, and is searching for answers. The Sox are trying to help him on that process. If the Nationals didn't break him, he wouldn't have been available in a trade anyway. This is the truth. He's more of a lottery ticket. The other two + a high end lotto ticket was a fair deal for Eaton. Giolito still had the reputation during the trade, and most didn't know how damaged he had become. I think the majority of the posters here bought into the old scouting reports on him and had unreasonable expectations of the guy. I had zero from the beginning. He's always been a reclamation project, and if you aren't willing to accept that, whatever. Edited February 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'll tell you what is awful about it. Giolito WAS good. The Nationals broke something that didn't need fixing. In doing so, they completely messed up the guy's delivery. Now he's been trying to find what he lost, and is searching for answers. The Sox are trying to help him on that process. If the Nationals didn't break him, he wouldn't have been available in a trade anyway. This is the truth. He's more of a lottery ticket. The other two + a high end lotto ticket was a fair deal for Eaton. Giolito still had the reputation during the trade, and most didn't know how damaged he had become. Giolito was always a lot more hype than production. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Giolito was always a lot more hype than production. No, he was really good in the lower minors. He got messed up shortly before he made his MLB debut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Exactly. He's been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. He's 100% a project and everyone that has expected quick results or his former top prospect status has been disappointed, and have written him off already. Nobody is willing to be patient with the guy and he has always been a complete wild card. Last year he proved he still has good enough stuff to be a #2, but now it is all about throwing strikes and him learning to pitch. The Sox aren't dumb, and they aren't going to punt on him until they're left with no choice. IMO he has to figure it out within the next two seasons, otherwise he's going to be the victim of a numbers game. I feel like I'm the only poster here that understands this and actually takes a rational approach. Most others wouldn't have cared if they cut him last June. The most likely scenario was exactly what has happened so far. You have to hope he turns it around over the next year or two. If these tweaks click, watch out. Good enough stuff to be a number 2? At times he was struggling to hit 90 on the radar gun. He finished the year averaging 92, His fastball velocity is now dead average with little movement. 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Giolito was always a lot more hype than production. His hype was based on his electric stuff and fastball. He isn't the same prospect from three years ago. Honestly neither is the upside people talk about him like he's still the same guy he just needs to tweak somethings and learn how to pitch better. Lets just be honest his stuff is gone people need to be honest about his ceiling now is. Edited March 1, 2019 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 At least he is tweaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Good enough stuff to be a number 2? At times he was struggling to hit 90 on the radar gun. He finished the year averaging 92, His fastball velocity is now dead average with little movement. His hype was based on his electric stuff and fastball. He isn't the same prospect from three years ago. Honestly neither is the upside people talk about him like he's still the same guy he just needs to tweak somethings and learn how to pitch better. Lets just be honest his stuff is gone people need to be honest about his ceiling now is. He had a stretch last year where he absolutely looked like a #2 starter. So yes, it’s not impossible. If he can turn things around, I envision him as more of a 3/4, but I’m certainly not giving up on him yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Haha, I opened this up after reading the header very quickly. I thought it said his latest tweets. I wondered if he said something controversial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: He had a stretch last year where he absolutely looked like a #2 starter. So yes, it’s not impossible. If he can turn things around, I envision him as more of a 3/4, but I’m certainly not giving up on him yet. What stretch? He's a big league pitcher, every big league pitcher can throw 2 or 3 good games. Giolito's BEST month, was a 3.86 ERA. He looked pretty good in September - he didn't look like a #2 starter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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