Garpax vs KenHahn

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sexton >>> WCJ

Sexton always had the tools; this past month he just had will be better than any month WCJ has in his entire career. 

Sexton is 21 years old, and he was an elite playmaker/scorer on the level of other NBA stars. 

Last month, Sexton graded out as the 14th best player in the league for that period of time. That's the ceiling and potential he has. He has become much more efficient in one year; the skies the limit for Sexton. He'd look nice next to Lavine - as would MPJ obviously. Instead the Bulls took a limited center.

The Bulls issue is that they always take safe players over boom/bust...Which is the absolute wrong thing to do in the NBA, where you need stars to win. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The Bulls issue is that they always take safe players over boom/bust...Which is the absolute wrong thing to do in the NBA, where you need stars to win. 

Yes, the Bulls are idiots and they don't draft for ceilings - which is something a contending team may do. The Bulls aren't contenders, and they need upside. 

Sexton was risky, but the guys upside was fantastic. 

MPJ was the best player on the board by a lot. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

On 3/1/2019 at 3:29 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I never once said Colin Sexton has been a good player so far but his ceiling is about 10 floors higher than Wendell Carter Jr. That was my point. Sexton has struggled mightily but he also has shown flashes of talent that Wendell Carter has not.

People really lambasted my position on the Bulls being bad and having little talent and future promise last year; furthermore, people thought the assessment of Carter vs Sexton was awful because 20 year old Sexton had struggled to adjust to the NBA life on a bad team.

There was a lot of optimism in this thread last year about the Bulls - sans me - some even said they had 4 good players (absurd). I'm glad most have come around - this team is bad, and Lavine is the only player worth a shit. This front office is only outdone by James Dolan at this point. 

The Bulls had chances to take the right guy too - this has not been driven by their draft position - but they've decided to evade risk and accept mediocrity and trash as if they were supplementing a talented Core and not building one.

Sexton and MPJ were great options for the Bulls; instead they went with a limited ceiling big who was never going to be a star in the NBA. I'll add that both Sexton and MPJ need to further prove it and develop - Sexton especially, who has shown great improvement throughout this year, but needs to sustain it for longer and continue to develop. I would guess most Bulls fans would rather bet on his further progress than WCJ ascension. 

Hopefully the people will stop insinuating that this front office drafts well due to a couple good grabs a decade ago. This team drafts like trash, and doesn't develop anyone. This is a hopeless organization.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[SoxAce]

On 3/7/2019 at 8:34 AM, thxfrthmmrs said:

You're trashing on WCJ and his production which is way off base. Despite being the 3rd or 4th option on the team and getting lost in the shuffle which is typical for a 19 year old big, especially one who had a coaching change 20 games into his career.

He's been trashing WCJ since he was a rookie last year and was the second best (some might argue the best although I won't go that far) Bulls player (by far the best defender). It's a bit odd. 

[fathom]

12 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

He's been trashing WCJ since he was a rookie last year and was the second best (some might argue the best although I won't go that far) Bulls player (by far the best defender). It's a bit odd. 

Can I trash him because he’s a snitch

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

He's been trashing WCJ since he was a rookie last year and was the second best (some might argue the best although I won't go that far) Bulls player (by far the best defender). It's a bit odd. 

Are you sticking to WCJ was a better pick than Sexton or MPJ?

My point on WCJ remains - he's a role player with a limited ceiling on a good team. He has no star potential and didn't when they drafted him. It's not at all what this team needed.

This thread was a year old and the post you are quoting was a year old. Amazingly, most thoughts I had in this thread were dumped on and nearly everyone one of them - one year later - has come to fruition.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:42 AM, ron883 said:

Revisiting this after a bulls season, I think the bulls actually have a decent core. Otto, Zach, and Lauri are a solid foundation. Garpax has Kenny and Hahn beat so far.

How you feeling, Ron?

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How you feeling, Ron?

Significant injuries to both Otto and Lauri. My prediction would be pretty spot if they stay healthy. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Significant injuries to both Otto and Lauri. My prediction would be pretty spot if they stay healthy. 

They were awful with Laurie. You must be watching a different team.

[Moan4Yoan]

16 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Significant injuries to both Otto and Lauri. My prediction would be pretty spot if they stay healthy. 

Zero stars in the NBA = you’re wrong

[ron883]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They were awful with Laurie. You must be watching a different team.

Lauri has been injured all season. Something just isn't right. I think he has some sort of undiagnosed autoimmune disorder that is hindering him. Possibly lupus

[ron883]

6 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Zero stars in the NBA = you’re wrong

Lauri is a star without his fatigue issues/injuries

[Moan4Yoan]

31 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Lauri is a star without his fatigue issues/injuries

You are dreaming.  He’s a very good player but he’s no star.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Moan4Yoan

[Chicago White Sox]

Hahn + KW >>>>> GarPax

[Moan4Yoan]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hahn + KW >>>>> GarPax

My kids’ skid-marked underwear >>>>> GarPax

[thxfrthmmrs]

4 hours ago, SoxAce said:

He's been trashing WCJ since he was a rookie last year and was the second best (some might argue the best although I won't go that far) Bulls player (by far the best defender). It's a bit odd. 

He's digging up a very old thread to prove his point again. Which is even more odd. lol

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hahn + KW >>>>> GarPax

Hold your horses...the Sox haven't won anything yet. 

[SoxAce]

Just now, thxfrthmmrs said:

He's digging up a very old thread to prove his point again. Which is even more odd. lol

Funny thing is, I remember his post about WCJ from the NBA thread, not this one. 

[Chisoxmb35]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Are you sticking to WCJ was a better pick than Sexton or MPJ?

My point on WCJ remains - he's a role player with a limited ceiling on a good team. He has no star potential and didn't when they drafted him. It's not at all what this team needed.

This thread was a year old and the post you are quoting was a year old. Amazingly, most thoughts I had in this thread were dumped on and nearly everyone one of them - one year later - has come to fruition.

But it um, hasn't? There's a reason the Bulls defense got worse after WCJ went down. Both sides of the court matter and Sexton isn't near the defender that WCj is and likely never will be. Also let's give MPj more than a few games before your arm gets injured patting yourself on the back about him being what you think he is. 

[ron883]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

But it um, hasn't? There's a reason the Bulls defense got worse after WCJ went down. Both sides of the court matter and Sexton isn't near the defender that WCj is and likely never will be. Also let's give MPj more than a few games before your arm gets injured patting yourself on the back about him being what you think he is. 

MPJ could barely walk on draft night... I don't blame any team for passing on him. HUGE injury risk. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by ron883

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

He's digging up a very old thread to prove his point again. Which is even more odd. lol

Odd? Everyone here was painting some rosey picture of the Bulls future last season, and I articulated a very different opinion that was personal attacked and ridiculed.

Now people still want to remain stubborn and say the Bulls are still fine? Amazing. I guess this is why that team never holds anyone accountable.

[ron883]

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Odd? Everyone here was painting some rosey picture of the Bulls future last season, and I articulated a very different opinion that was personal attacked and ridiculed.

Now people still want to remain stubborn and say the Bulls are still fine? Amazing. I guess this is why that team never holds anyone accountable.

Minus injuries and Jimbo, they're a playoff team. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Minus injuries and Jimbo, they're a playoff team. 

Lol. In the east that means nothing anyway since the 8th seed is 6 games under. Even considering that, they arent even a playoff team.

The team is a disaster.

[thxfrthmmrs]

44 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Odd? Everyone here was painting some rosey picture of the Bulls future last season, and I articulated a very different opinion that was personal attacked and ridiculed.

Now people still want to remain stubborn and say the Bulls are still fine? Amazing. I guess this is why that team never holds anyone accountable.

I am not one to defend this FO and had been advocating these clowns to be fired for too long now. It is lost cause with JR and his son in charge so I don’t even bother these days.

What I don’t get is your infatuation with Sexton and constant attempt to belittle WCJ who is a fine young player. I get that in the new age NBA you need ball handlers, and shooters to build a dynamic offense. While Sexton fits the bill, he is also terribly limited in other areas and struggles defensively not being able to defend bigger guys. It’s no coincidence he’s one of the worst defensive guards in the league for the second year in a row, while on the other hand WCJ is a top 20 defensive big across several metrics. As others have pointed out, you do notice the difference defensively after WCJ went down with injury. And this isn’t Trae Young we’re talking about, while being a smaller guard could change the game in a number of ways with elite skill sets

You’re a stats guy, so I trust that you have looked past his scoring numbers and looked at advanced stats - WS VORP, PER, on/off court differentials, RPM, etc. I don’t see Sexton even being close to making the impact WCJ does. I am not into getting into a debate that Wendell’s growth has been stunted by playing for a coach who has no business coaching in the NBA and who has shown no success whatsoever drawing up a game plan for his big men on offense.

[GradMc]

On 3/1/2019 at 10:40 AM, bmags said:

I've thought about this a lot.

Here is my analysis:

- Paxson and Gar have to be held to a higher standard because they took over one of the best sports brands in the world, have a loyal and adoring fan base, and a big market which makes it a lot easier to compete for talent in FA.

- Because of their inherent advantages, I rate them in the bottom half of front offices due to the:

     - Lack of creativity - are never in play for big acquisitions because they both fall in love with their assets and are too timid to send out what it takes

    - Refusal to spend/go for it, by the time they dipped into the luxury tax, it was the end of their core, and they used it for an end of career pau gasol. THey have one of the smallest front offices in the league, and consistently leave cap open but have same issue as hahn where they overpay on the end of the roster and restrict bigger moves.

    - Antagonistic relationships with players and coaches - between the medical mismanagement, throwing coaches under the bus, and physical altercations, they've gotten away with things nobody should

 

HOWEVER - The absolute strength of garpax is good drafting, and if I had to choose between the two I'd take that strength over the lack of any strength on the KW/Hahn side.

 

KENHAN:

- For Kenny Williams first decade, he oversaw one of the better pro scouting departments in the game in my opinion. That ended as the age curve progressed and cheap veterans via trade and free agency became terrible investments.

- Clearly the best way to succeed in baseball is draft/player dev/international scouting. They have been in the bottom 5 in baseball over last 20 years (generously).

- They run their team as if they are setting up to be the illitch tigers, when they should be running it as the cleveland baseball team, rays, or modern twins. Meaning, they operate as if they believe their financial advantages define their team building, but are unrealistic about what it means (constant disadvantage to actual big market teams), while neglecting the ways that small market teams have succeeded.

The last point is inexcusable. 

The thing to emphasize is they are both bad. But despite the "rebuild on the fly" failure of 2014-15-16 of hahn, he said when he took over sox were going to start building up farm. The CBA changed to the white sox favor there. The draft position was more favorable. International free agency became more favorable to white sox. Everything bent toward making it easier for him to operate under Reinsdorf constraints yet still only improved marginally.

 

Nobody is reading at this point anyway. Hi! if you made it this far.

The common denominator is one Jerry Reinsdorf. If his august management teams weren't doing his bidding, they wouldn't occupy their respective positions.

If it comes down to wishing for new ownership, your team is in dire straits (Sox, Bulls, Bears).

Reinsdorf has the biggest ego in either of his sports organization. His reaction to criticism is to double-down.

He will not give his detractors (and lordy there are many) the satisfaction of watching him hand over the keys to new owners.

Ain't happening.

So as long as that's the case GarPax and Kenny-Hahn are likely here to stay.

Gar-Hahn at best might get thrown under the bus eventually.

I could actually see Steve Stone in the front office of Sox at some point. I wouldn't care for it, but that would be a very Reinsdorfian move.

Getting rid of Kenny-Pax would be too much of an admission of failure although it's apparent to everyone except Reinsdorf they have overstayed.

The type of elite front office decision makers and on-field difference makers these organizations desperate need wouldn''t be bothered with Reinsdorf and I don't blame them.