3/10 vs A's, 3pm, whitesox.com

[caulfield12]

Lefties definitely are better low ball hitters.

Now “rising” four seam fastballs above the belt at 97+, 90% of hitters are going to struggle to barrel up those pitches.

Beckham and Viciedo almost never managed it, just flaring off balls into RF and foul territory...mostly weak contact after Dayan started to get pull happy after his rookie campaign in 2012.

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Then why don't pitchers just throw high fastball all the time? The high pitch is only effective when it is used after the lower pitches are the norm. The caveat being at the top of the current strike zone. Back in the day when they called armpit high pitches a strike I would agree. But in today's game where a pitch at the belt is the highest strike, it doesn't work. Those pitches get crushed.

I've seen plenty of pitches above the belt get called strikes. Based on what you're describing as the strike zone I'd generally agree. If the strike zone as a whole is smaller than it used to be, then maybe they need to adjust it. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Then why don't pitchers just throw high fastball all the time? The high pitch is only effective when it is used after the lower pitches are the norm. The caveat being at the top of the current strike zone. Back in the day when they called armpit high pitches a strike I would agree. But in today's game where a pitch at the belt is the highest strike, it doesn't work. Those pitches get crushed.

Probably the biggest reason is it rarely is called a strike. Jose Quintana's put away pitch is a 92 MPH high fastball. 

I'm telling you, go to a batting cage which will give you the same MPH every pitch, and see how much easier it is to get around on the lower ones. Gravity helps. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

30 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Probably the biggest reason is it rarely is called a strike. Jose Quintana's put away pitch is a 92 MPH high fastball. 

I'm telling you, go to a batting cage which will give you the same MPH every pitch, and see how much easier it is to get around on the lower ones. Gravity helps. 

Theres a reason pitchers have spent the past two decades living down in the zone and it's not because they like being smacked around.

It is easier to elevate a high pitch than a low one. 

The high fastball is making a comeback though.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Theres a reason pitchers have spent the past two decades living down in the zone and it's not because they like being smacked around.

It is easier to elevate a high pitch than a low one. 

The high fastball is making a comeback though.

Sure, with two seam fastballs or sinkers that pitchers want the batters to top and beat into the ground for double plays...

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It is easier to elevate a high pitch than a low one. 

 

Physics says this is wrong. It is actually easier to elevate a low pitch than a high one. The launch angle will be higher in a low pitch than a high pitch by default. Ground balls have a negative launch angle. High pitches will have a smaller launch angle because it is harder to square up. Idk if you've ever tried playing baseball before but.....I'm no professional(far from it) but low pitches are far easier to square up than high ones. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Theres a reason pitchers have spent the past two decades living down in the zone and it's not because they like being smacked around.

It is easier to elevate a high pitch than a low one. 

The high fastball is making a comeback though.

But it isn't easier to hit. Now with launch angles and upper cuts, pitching up is the way to go on a lot of hitters, except of course if up is hanging breaking balls.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Dick Allen

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

But it isn't easier to hit. Now with launch angles and upper cuts, pitching up is the way to go, except of course if up is hanging breaking balls.

No. I'm not sure why people think hitters take dramatic upper cut swings that lead to dropping the barrel head down on the ball. Even people who are fly ball oriented don't like continually dropping the barrel down on the ball. You prefer to drive through the ball - not sweep it. 

The high fastball is easier to square up - hence why it's thrown less. 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But it isn't easier to hit. Now with launch angles and upper cuts, pitching up is the way to go on a lot of hitters, except of course if up is hanging breaking balls.

It baffles me how many people have no concept of the physics of projectile motion. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Physics says this is wrong. It is actually easier to elevate a low pitch than a high one. The launch angle will be higher in a low pitch than a high pitch by default. Ground balls have a negative launch angle. High pitches will have a smaller launch angle because it is harder to square up. Idk if you've ever tried playing baseball before but.....I'm no professional(far from it) but low pitches are far easier to square up than high ones. 

No. Physics doesn't say this is wrong. My goodness. And no, low pitches are not easier to square up. A miss on a high pitch will lead to a pop up - a miss on a low pitch will lead to a grounder. Higher pitches induce more fly balls and pop ups.

I played college baseball.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

It baffles me how anyone would think low balls have a higher launch angle than high balls. Here's an article stating how that is wrong.

https://community.fangraphs.com/effect-of-pitch-selection-on-launch-angle-and-exit-velocity/

It is basic math - the higher the pitch the higher the exit angle. Low balls are harder to lift.

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No. Physics doesn't say this is wrong. My goodness. And no, low pitches are not easier to square up. A miss on a high pitch will lead to a pop up - a miss on a low pitch will lead to a grounder. Higher pitches induce more fly balls and pop ups.

I played college baseball.

You can't even make contact on a low pitch without dropping the head of the bat. If hitter actually had a "level swing" like you claim the only place anyone would make contact is on the sweet spot. Every ball contacted by every hitter below the middle of the strike zone is an uppercut of some sort. The only difference is by how much. 

Baseball is a physics project for me. You're going off of basebally jargon. Every swing is different based on pitch location. It is part of what makes baseball a hard game. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

You can't even make contact on a low pitch without dropping the head of the bat. If hitter actually had a "level swing" like you claim the only place anyone would make contact is on a narrow sliver in the sweet spot. Every ball contacted by every hitter below the middle of the strike zone is an uppercut of some sort. The only difference is by how much. 

Pal, I dont know what to tell you. Launch angles on low balls are significantly lower than those on high pitches. 

It's basic physics. That's why sinker ballers who get a lot of grounders don't throw pitches up in the zone. 

You are greatly misunderstanding the terminology of dropping the barrel. If your bat is coming to the ball with the barrel pointing nearly 45 degrees towards the ground, you're not going to have much success. The way you are describing dropping the barrel would coincide with dropping ones back shoulder which no hitter wants.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You can't even make contact on a low pitch without dropping the head of the bat. If hitter actually had a "level swing" like you claim the only place anyone would make contact is on the sweet spot. Every ball contacted by every hitter below the middle of the strike zone is an uppercut of some sort. The only difference is by how much. 

Baseball is a physics project for me. You're going off of basebally jargon. Every swing is different based on pitch location. It is part of what makes baseball a hard game. 

Where did I claim players have a level swing? 

Pal, idk what to tell you. You are scientifically and statistically wrong here. 

I'm not going off baseball jargon.

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Pal, I dont know what to tell you. Launch angles on low balls are significantly lower than those on high pitches. 

It's basic physics. That's why sinker ballers who get a lot of grounders don't throw pitches up in the zone. 

You are greatly misunderstanding the terminology of dropping the barrel. If your bat is coming to the ball with the barrel pointing nearly 45 degrees towards the ground, you're not going to have much success. The way you are describing dropping the barrel would coincide with dropping ones back shoulder which no hitter wants.

I'm not talking about dropping the shoulder or anything I'm talking about the plane of the bat's motion through the plane of the strike zone bud. You're not going to make contact with a pitch one foot off of the ground without having that plane intersection be at least 35+ degrees. think about what you're saying. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No. I'm not sure why people think hitters take dramatic upper cut swings that lead to dropping the barrel head down on the ball. Even people who are fly ball oriented don't like continually dropping the barrel down on the ball. You prefer to drive through the ball - not sweep it. 

The high fastball is easier to square up - hence why it's thrown less. 

People with upper cut swings can't get to a high fastball. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/as-more-mlb-batters-become-launch-angle-disciples-pitchers-are-quietly-adapting/2018/03/27/ecace82c-2dda-11e8-8688

 

Again, anyone who thinks a high fastball in the upper part of the zone is easier to hit than one at the knees, needs to go to a batting cage. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Dick Allen

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Where did I claim players have a level swing? 

Pal, idk what to tell you. You are scientifically and statistically wrong here. 

I'm not going off baseball jargon.

Yes, high pitches lead to more flyouts. How many are lazy popups though? The other thing is that it is easier for the human eye to track a low pitch than a high one. I'd love to run an experiment where a pitcher throws nothing but high 95 mph fastballs and see how hitters do. I think most would be surprised. They could know it's coming and probably still wouldn't do much. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

The the high, is fastballs only. Not breaking pitches. High breaking pitches are usually really bad.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

People with upper cut swings can't get to a high fastball. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/as-more-mlb-batters-become-launch-angle-disciples-pitchers-are-quietly-adapting/2018/03/27/ecace82c-2dda-11e8-8688

 

Again, anyone who thinks a high fastball in the upper part of the zone is easier to hit than one at the knees, needs to go to a batting cage. 

Or.. play the game? You are mistaking velocity being less challenging low in the zone with the pitch being easier to hit. Pitches live down in the zone because it's harder to hit. It's one of the reasons trout is so dominant  because be destroys low pitches in a low ball era.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yes, high pitches lead to more flyouts. How many are lazy popups though? The other thing is that it is easier for the human eye to track a low pitch than a high one. Id love to run an experiment where a pitcher throws nothing but high 95 mph fastballs and see how hitters do. I think most would be surprised. They could know it's coming and probably still wouldn't do much. 

Doeant matter if it's a lazy pop up. Jesus christ. Its elevated. That's my point. Misses on balls low are grounders - misses on pitches high are pop ups. Because its easier and more likely to elevate high pitches than low.

You said something that is factually wrong. No point in discussing it further.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Or.. play the game? You are mistaking velocity being less challenging low in the zone with the pitch being easier to hit. Pitches live down in the zone because it's harder to hit. It's one of the reasons trout is so dominant  because be destroys low pitches in a low ball era.

They are easier to hit. 

A fastball at the top of the zone is not as easy to put in play as one with the same velocity at the bottom of the zone. .  A low fastball is easier to hit because gravity helps you out a bit. 

 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Doeant matter if it's a lazy pop up. Jesus christ. Its elevated. That's my point. Misses on balls low are grounders - misses on pitches high are pop ups. Because its easier and more likely to elevate high pitches than low.

You said something that is factually wrong. No point in discussing it further.

Maybe we have a different definition of a high pitch. My definition is from the middle of the ribcage to the bottom of the neck. What's yours? I am not talking about belt high pitches here. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Let's put it this way before I give up on this explanation.

You hit balls into the ground because you get on top of them - you hit them in the air because you get under them. It is WAY easier to get under a high pitch than a low when. The lower something is to the ground, the harder it is to get under it. That's basic stuff.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Let's put it this way before I give up on this explanation.

You hit balls into the ground because you get on top of them - you hit them in the air because you get under them. It is WAY easier to get under a high pitch than a low when. The lower something is to the ground, the harder it is to get under it. That's basic stuff.

https://www.mlb.com/news/sean-doolittle-excelling-with-high-fastballs-c273645330

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Let's put it this way before I give up on this explanation.

You hit balls into the ground because you get on top of them - you hit them in the air because you get under them. It is WAY easier to get under a high pitch than a low when. The lower something is to the ground, the harder it is to get under it. That's basic stuff.

Nope the opposite is true bud. It might be easier to get under it but it is harder to make quality contact. I am talking about the combo of launch angle + exit velocity. It is easier to get a higher exit velocity on a lower pitch. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Jack Parkman